Quote from: TheRealSteve on April 17, 2015, 04:08:06 PM

Quote from: jelin1984 on April 17, 2015, 03:13:34 PM

If you chose the option of a refund for your mini Titan, you will be refunded the same amount of BTC that you paid to us. The Swedish law on cancelled purchases is that both parties get back what they initially performed.
The initial transaction you performed was that you paid to us a number of BTC, for that reason you must be repaid that same number of BTC.

Well, that's one interpretation. Who's willing to bet that if the exchange rate was $2,000/BTC, they'd interpret it differently?

The Mini Titans were listed in USD, not Bitcoin.
https://www.kncminer.com/categories/litecoin-mining-hardware^{archive.today}

Payment in Bitcoin was processed via Bitpay
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/payment^{archive.today}

Bitpay largely acts as an instant exchange intermediary. I.e. a customer pays Bitcoin to Bitpay, and Bitpay pays fiat to the merchant.
One could argue that no Bitcoin was paid to KnC (unless they were one of the few accepting direct BTC payments via Bitpay).

Bitpay allows merchants to process refunds through them in either fiat or Bitcoin, but suggest "refund the amount of the initial purchase in the currency in which the item was priced".
https://bitpay.com/legal^{archive.today}
In this case, that would be USD, not Bitcoin - but it's only a suggestion by Bitpay.

Bitpay requires merchants to post a clear refund policy.
KnC's refund policy only covers defective items under warranty, not non-delivery. The refund policy for defective items states "As an exclusive remedy for any covered warranty claim, KnCMiner may choose to (i) re-deliver new products, (ii) repair the defected Product or (iii) offer cash refund."
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc^{archive.today}
Depending on locale, Bitcoin may not be considered 'cash' under such a provision.

However, this may be moot as a bunch of later terms basically come down to "we can choose to deliver it whenever we please, and when we send it out for delivery it's not even our responsibility anymore", via constructs that put all the risk and responsibility with the customer, rather than the merchant.

Payment in USD was processed via bank transfer.
Unknown: In this instance, banks function as the intermediary. Somebody in China would pay a certain amount of CNY to the bank in order to fulfill a particular USD payment. Would KnCMiner argue similarly that they would refund the customer in CNY?

Regardless, let the lawyers figure it all out - but it should be clear that KnC doesn't really care.. they're doing quite well and are happy to screw over any old customers as they're no longer dependent on that business anyway. If they really wanted, they could make it all go away by throwing money at people, but right now they might as well string people along and do the minimum possible and allowed.

Makes me sad, but such is business.

Thank you for this, might help bring lawyers up to speed a little faster.
I also confirmed Bitpay converted payments to fiat, so KNC was paid in fiat.

My guess they are seeing how many people cave and accept 1/3 or less of what is owed. Anyone who fights back and defends their legal rights they'll just pay the full amount. Even if just a few accept the offer just to be done with this nightmare in the eyes of KNC it's worth it. Nobody should accept less than what they are owed ever, but especially after the way KNC has treated us.