Quote from: RenegadeMan on April 24, 2015, 11:58:22 AM

Quote from: BigDaddySherman on April 24, 2015, 10:39:10 AM

Quote from: RenegadeMan on April 24, 2015, 07:39:36 AM

Quote from: BigDaddySherman on April 24, 2015, 06:45:38 AM

Quote from: Oddjob on April 24, 2015, 04:34:10 AM

Quote from: murderouskirk on April 24, 2015, 04:07:46 AM

Quote from: Sumo on April 24, 2015, 04:04:30 AM

In the OP didn't the dev say that Prom fucked him over in the past and this was a chance to get it right? So why is he working with him again?

Just because prom holds the coins, doesn't mean he's working with the dev right?

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq165/Majicle/Gifs/futurama-fry-meme-generator-not-sure-if-serious-or-just-trolling-104db8.jpg

Cryptowest made a great move to build confidence in himself and his project, but Prometheus's stupid tweet about that giant wall fucked it all up. Everything even mildly associated with Prometheus turns to shit, and while it's pretty damn obvious to the rest of us, he'll never accept blame for anything (unless it's successful, then he'll take full credit).

Maybe Prometheus is on the outside looking in and acting like a dick as usual, but it seems more likely that he's still on the inside getting his jollies from "controlling" the market, no matter how badly he ruins it for others. Prometheus has nothing at stake right now while Cryptowest put his identity on the line...if Prometheus is a legitimate member of the team, maybe they should post his dox too. I'm sure that's not going to happen though, so get him on a leash and keep him out of sight, for all of our sake.

I've done nothing but support this project, but behavior like that makes me sick.

I reckon if the top 20 holders form a pact - a collective refusal to supply the market below a certain price we all agree on - we can greatly nullify anyone who is trying to kill the coin (god knows why, he would make far more trickle selling and allowing the market to rise at it clearly wants to).

No identity's need be disclosed - just have the relevant wallet in the top 20 send a specific amount of TRON say 0.1337 to a certain publicly viewable address upon agreement to the terms (whatever we come up with and find amicable).

We are pretty weak on our own - even 2% isn't very many coins in reality - but if we get say 25% of all TRON off the market until at least XXX,XXX satoshi then we can turn this back in our favor.

Goodness gracious, the level of naivety in crypto is simply gobsmacking! I'm as keen as the next person to see the price rise and not be severely affected by negative people trying to do damage but what you're suggesting is collusion plain and simple! It's the false manipulation of a market. In most jurisdictions around the world it's a criminal offence for participants in a market of any sort to band to together to control the price. People are charged, found guilty in courts of law and sent to prison every year for this sort of market-rigging crime.

I understand where you're coming from and what you're trying to achieve to protect Positron from adversity, but to organise (so specifically and systematically) a process where larger coin holders are in cahoots with each other to minimise coins for sale or behave in a certain agreed-amongst-themselves way to effect an out come....sorry, but it's the very epitome of what open and fair markets are trying to route out!

(Furthermore, the temptation for one of the larger holders to break with the pack and dump before anyone else gets a chance will be just all too strong....a plan based on manipulative behaviour and collusion is almost always going to fail because the natural tendency towards an intent to mislead creates a "there's no honour amongst thieves" mindset that's doomed to misappropriation).

I understand your concerns and respect your opposition to the idea. If you recall Mintcoin had a similar pact back in the day that saw it beat similar behaviour that we are seeing now. Unfortunately, poor old Mintcoin was undone by other factors.

In regards to illegality you would be naive to think this isn't already happening in every single coin that dominates the market today. I consider it to be a fair and just response to the fact that, unlike the securities markets, we don't have the same information that all other traders have and there are information insiders everywhere. There are certain people acting in cahoots with the Dev and the whales, paying BTC to be in BobSurplus's special group etc. This proposal doesn't require anyone to pay BTC for inside info or for the 'privilege' of being in a special group. It would be simply a way of levelling the playing the field with those who make all the money around here and ultimately rob people blind. It is much harder to rob people and manipulate a coin into oblivion if the target price is in the open and those in favor of taking it there show their support for all to see.

Personally, I would rather not have to even propose such an idea - but the fact that this entire industry is dominated by crooks, manipulated by hustlers, necessitates some form of action on behalf of those who 1. Don't receive information before the official announcements, and 2. Would otherwise be unduly disadvantaged by collusion between the whales behind the scenes.

Simply bringing the discussion into the open - where no one in the group has any more or less information than anyone else - is the best way to combat what goes on currently in my opinion.

Okay, well now that you've put it like that I understand where you're coming from. It's unfortunate though that one has to adopt the "if you can't beat them, join them" mantra on this sort of stuff.

It's true that disgusting individuals like Bobsurplus (and I don't say that lightly, I have done a bit of background checking on the guy, he's completely vile) are having an enormously detrimental effect on crypto. He basically sucks the life out of many coins and many many newbie investors too who end up so burned they leave never to return to this circus we're all involved in. I know what we're dealing with here (investing in things like Tron and/or pretty much any alt) is devoid of so much of the integrity that regulators like the SEC demand of IPOs and the behaviour of public company boards/directors etc. We can't begin to know what we're really getting into in terms of who the actual large wallet holders are and what the dev's "investors" expect/will demand of him, so it's quite a gamble and makes for very nervous coin holders who're ready to dump at the slightest indication things may not be well. Everyone's hoping for a Crave-like pump so the whole coin supply (almost) sits on a hair trigger for the most part.

Anyhow, thanks for your explanation. I still don't condone any form of organised collusion and wouldn't take part in it myself, but I do understand what you're thinking is and why it's perhaps a necessary evil.

Fair enough! We don't have to agree with each but it's clear we understand and respect each others view on the idea and that's good enough for me. The aim is simply to take back control of the coin from those who seek to either kill it (as they did with certain other promising coins that posed a threat to their primary investments in the past) or dump it more and more each day in cahoots with other whales and screw all the other investors. Because it is so clearly manipulated downwards - and has barely been given more than 12 hours breathing space since its inception to rise without artificial sell pressure - it is going to take the large holders acting in unison to break the chain. Whales never own more than about 10% of the total supply from experience because they know thats all they need to scare the shit outta the masses and make money off them. If we stop the bleeding ourselves we can lessen their impact. Market confidence is a crazy thing - it only takes a sniff of something negative to collapse the price 50% - similarly however, a hint of something positive can cause the buys to flow again.