Quote from: kenobius on April 25, 2015, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: Kora on April 24, 2015, 10:26:35 PM

...

Maybe give 10% to SuperNET for distribution to SN hodlers? Those people are very likely to understand the importance of being active participants in the shuffling process (i.e. anon shuffling wont work unless we reach a critical mass of ORA transactions), so its a win:win.

What other options could we explore?

What do people think? Every idea & suggestion is worthy of consideration!!

Will be better to distribute to NXT account with over 1000 NXT on it.

That's a good suggestion!! We would have to make the ORA a fixed % of the account balance to prevent gaming (i.e. people splitting larger accounts into multiple 1000 NXT), but it's definitely worth considering. The goal with this next distribution will be to spread ORA around to ACTIVE potential 'shufflers', so we want to avoid giving it to people who don't shuffle.

With the first webapp distribution we were really after 'bums on seats' (i.e. unique 'bums on seats', no sockpuppets). With this distribution we want something more - active 'ORA::shufflers' - so what conditions or attributes increase the likelihood that a person will 'shuffle' regularly?

For those not following nxtforum.org I'll re-post this here so people know what's happening on nxtforum.

Quote from: Kora on April 25, 2015, 07:12:29 AM

Quote from: Jack Needles on April 24, 2015, 11:14:51 PM

Quote from: jl777 on April 24, 2015, 10:42:12 PM

Well, I will need to get some significant amount in exchange for the silver coins, so we need to come up with a reasonable valuation of pre-coins vs post-coins and allow swapping of sncoin asset for ORA.

Certainly.

Quote from: jl777 on April 24, 2015, 10:42:12 PM

Having 10% held long term wont affect usage (as long as you have enough decimals! I suggest 4)

Okay, I withdraw my caveat. I think I speak for most of the ORA community when I say that your involvement can only be a net boon, and 10% is reasonable for the blessing of a simple C programmer (and crypto-juggernaut! Wink

) such as yourself.

Quote from: jl777 on April 24, 2015, 10:42:12 PM

If you want widespread distribution, we can do a SuperNET/NXTventure dividend. I estimate that gets it to >1000 different people, possible closer to 2000 now

Oooh, I like! Distribute, distribute, distribute! Get more ORA in more hands!!!

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Does anyone have (or can recreate?) current accounting of ORA distribution? We have ORA assets (both alive on AE, and those sent to Darkhorse for MS XOR redemption), MIC assets for XOR redemption, etc. Did the NAS thing ever get worked out? See... many, many questions from this straggler.

Even after all that, I think much still remains for further distribution and these worthwhile requests should be easily met.

I think we should do both:
1- 10% to jl777 as a swap for the SNcoins to add some value to ORA (beyond magic internet beans value)
2- 10% distribution to SuperNET hodlers to spread ORA around to most likely future shufflers

They add a LOT to ORA, and I'm strongly in favor of both!

As for the state of things here is a brief snapshot of the main ORA & MIC NXT accounts & balances. It will take some blockchain forensics to work everything out, but it's all there.

ORA shareholders:
http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=9&id=16194910134118257692&p=1

ORA - 1,000,000,000 coin supply

NXT-7FPB-3K2S-M9FL-ARP4G - DH's ORA treasury - 789,364,422.00

NXT-G7QA-2KUA-BLLZ-5FUCY - DH's MIC & ORA redemption account - 66,900,878.00

MIC shareholders:
http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=9&id=4469670021276890463&p=1

MIC - originally 1,000,000,000 coin supply - effective supply is ~250,000,000

NXT-MRCC-2YLS-8M54-3CMAJ - NXT genesis account - 750,078,280.00

NXT-G7QA-2KUA-BLLZ-5FUCY - DH's MIC & ORA redemption account - 154,592,150.00

NXT-AKCT-VSCJ-C5BC-7YT8S - MIC genesis account - 32,433,500.00

As mentioned previously, the ORA distribution plan ended up being quite fluid as the nature of the project changed. I've gone back over the discussions on oraforum.org between the ORA founders (Mac Red, Darkhorse, fragora, myself), and this was the last plan DH came up with in late december before he got hit by the floods in Malaysia.

Quote from: Darkhorse on December 15, 2014, 10:29:45 AM

I have a proposal. Will update later on this. I think its a win win to everyone.

We divide the fund into 2, 30% for development and 70% for distribution/merger

30%

5% - Mac Red (Webapp Dev) - Paid
5% - Lead Dev (suggestion to pay monthly base)
2% - Kora expense account - Paid
1.0% - Darkhorse - community treasurer
1.0% - Fragora - community treasurer & CryptoFest.tv dev
16% - Development Bounty

Note: I believe each of us holding some of the portion will help to accelerate develop some of the "future projects" which we do not need to wait for any of us to vote to release the bounty fund. Meaning if i or you feel that you can develop an individual project under you, you can use the fund that is allocated to yourself. Any big project, we can vote to release from the Bounty fund.

70%

The 10% balance reducing from the MS pot.
1st Project - ORA stakeholders will be allocated based from their holding. If we allocated 10%, for every 1 Ora they hold, they will receive 0.38 MS ORA. Or if we allocated 15%, then for every 1 Ora they hold, they will receive 0.55 MS Ora.

Balance will be re-distributed via merger for projects & coins.

Outputs please.

but those numbers (30% for dev, & 70% for original ORA distro + MIC assimilation + future assimilations) were based on the assumption that we would do a number of further coin assimilations, and I think we (probably) all agree we should just finish MIC assimilation (ReserveShare was already completed and funded from ORA founder donations), so we have plenty of room to change the distribution to add 10% for James' silver coin swap, and 10% for SuperNET hodlers.

DH based his MIC:XOR exchange rate (1MIC=0.22 XOR) on the assumption of multiple further coin assimilations, so we should probably alter the ORA:MIC exchange rate in favour of MIC. If we assume 1MIC=0.5 XOR for example we would get something like this:

10% - jl777 SNcoin swap
10% - SuperNET dividend
5% - Mac Red (Webapp Dev) - Paid
5% - shuffle plugin dev
2% - Kora expense account - Paid
1.0% - Darkhorse - community treasurer
1.0% - Fragora - community treasurer & CryptoFest.tv dev
16% - Power Bounties & community funds
14.7% - ORA webapp distribution (890 stakeholders X 166,000 = 147,740,000 XOR)
12.5% - MIC assimilation (250,000,000 MIC X 0.5 = 125,000,000 XOR)
22.8% - unallocated funds

That's a starting point for discussion anyway. Please have your say and make suggestions!!

I will point out that one of ORA's original goals was always to end up with (idealised) decentralised 'starfish' community structures that were sufficiently 'robust' to handle having a large pot of community funds to pay people for their efforts (i.e. the 'power bounties') over an extended period of time, but that was based on the idea that ORA would be a separate coin & P2P network. Maybe we don't need such a large pool of community funds now, especially with all the obvious synergies available now being a NXT MS. One of my original goals though, was to be able to 'pay' people fairly for the work, and I still think that's important, but it does require sufficient collective 'trust', hence the need for community treasurers etc.

I'm very open to other opinions on this key point - distribution, decentralised community structures, paying people etc. I think for a dev it's easier to see the benefits of their work, but for other rolls like marketing, education, website maintenance, network/node support, forum participation etc etc it's often hard to distil the true value someone adds to the collective effort. My plan was to eventually use community nominations & voting to pay as many people who helped ORA as possible, once we established a viable & semi-cohesive community. I'm fully self-funded myself (I bought all of my own ORA on the NXT AE), and I will never apply for any bounties, so I'm hoping I can act as an impartial voice in the community to help navigate what *could* become quite a difficult topic at times (i.e. who gets paid what amounts for what tasks).

I'm not sure what we do with the left-over funds. We want to spread ORA as widely as possible so the shuffling reaches critical mass of volume to actually create viable anonymity, so some form of 'proof-of-action' giveaways (e.g. CryptoFest.tv entry), or maybe a giveaway to nxtforum.org users, or maybe we give some ORA to the NXT dev team and/or funding committees, should be considered to spread ORA around.

We have options!!