Quote from: josegines on April 26, 2015, 04:55:32 PM

Quote from: l8orre on April 26, 2015, 03:54:47 PM

Quote from: josegines on April 26, 2015, 03:21:49 PM

Quote from: l8orre on April 26, 2015, 12:49:30 PM

what exactly is it you are complaining about?

it is clear, there is an AE for buying-selling in which we are not the real ones interested in ORA. It is not an AE that it represents to the community ORA.

Those that they have supported his NOW are those that they have not wanted to send his ORA for the change for XOR, nevertheless now beneficiaries go out on having had freedom with his ORA and having sold them if this way they decide it.

An important reporting has done with the most important part of the community caught in the account NXT-G7QA-2KUA-BLLZ-5FUCY

In my opinion, if there was an important reporting, the problem of the shareholders should be had solved first, to be on equal terms in the AE.

This AE does not represent to the community ORA

Meanwhile more raise the price in the AE, now it is in historical maxima, more unjust will be this situation for the shareholders.

Are you aware of the fact that there is a great deal of concern for the wellbeing of the person who collected the tokens?

Nobody knows what happened to DarkHorse, but obviously he didn't steal the pile of ORA tokens and bought a beach villa on Hawaii.

Since when a community depends on one person?

I've been in ORA since July / 14, do not rush, what I say is that the situation in the AE is not fair to the Shareholders.

If the price was stable there would be no problem but I just now rising to absolute maximum.

@josegines, thanks for following ORA and having your say, we need as many people involved and sharing their opinions as possible, and I understand your point, and I feel your frustration (I'm in the same situation as you, ORA locked up in DH's redemption account). While there does appear to be some trade 'action' happening now on the NXT AE that you're missing out on, maybe consider that the price is rising, so if you sold now you would miss out on 'potential' gains far exceeding what we've seen so far. Everything is uncertain of course, but ORA has never had better prospects than now with the 'ORA::Shuffling' idea. Maybe one day in the future you will be thankful that your ORA was locked up and you couldn't sell. I've talked to guys who sold all their bitcoins for $3 and thought at the time they made a great profit.

As for your comment "Since when a community depends on one person?", I would honestly say the vast majority of crypto projects suffer from this problem. We like to think of crypto as being 'decentralised' because the tech is based on the revolution of the blockchain, but the reality is the 'human dimension' of crypto is still very centralised around "key people". What would happen to emunie if Fuserleer went MIA, or to Ethereum if Vitalek dropped out. Truth is most crypto projects on the human level are pyramid shaped. There are exceptions (bitcoin & NXT), but for most alt coins there are key people keeping projects moving forward, and if they drop out too early, everything can fall apart rapidly.

Now, with ORA we've tried to recognize these realities from day one and we've tried to make ORA leaderless and 'starfish' like from the get-go, but in the case of DH and his treasury account I'm not sure if we could have done anything better. Soon NXT tech will allow for rock-solid mulit-user accounts with 2 of 3 access (i.e. one rogue treasurer can't take off with community money, but 2 of 3 treasurers can still access the funds in case one guy disappears).

The problem for ORA so far is that tech isn't available yet. Should DH have given me his account password? In retrospect maybe, but what if I lost it, or I got "hacked" (which I did in January!!). Then everyone would have been critical of poor community fund security practices. Remember poor klee and the NXT community funds being stolen from his account. Also, having me separate from the community funds was always essential to develop 'trust', and for a while there ORA was really two active guys (DH & myself), plus support guys offering ideas and feedback.

Anyway, I understand your frustration, but I'm a 'glass is half full' guy, and a couple of weeks ago I was putting ORA into stasis (i.e.effectively the project was over), then the HUMAN ELEMENT of ORA - the 'starfish' stuff - kicked in:

1- Pilot offered to be a community treasurer
2- Jack Needles suggested ORA as default NXT shuffle coin
3- jl777 got "interested" and offered to help us

That makes me conclude that despite the obvious problem with our chief treasurer going missing (who I'm personally very worried about as someone I worked with and got to know as a very good colleague & friend), ORA as a leaderless decentralized 'starfish' project is actually really healthy. I have contributed very little to this re-birth (not the idea, not the tech etc), and that makes me feel great. Remember, ORA started out as a community based 'experiment', so this really is about 'the journey'. There's no script (ORA development is 100% organic & community driven), so there's no 'guru' or tech messiah in the wings ready to do everything (or anything) unless they feel its worth the effort.

@josegines, you're just as much a 'leader' of ORA as me, so have your say on what you think *could/should* be done. You mentioned maybe 'we' should have organised everything behind the scenes, then made an announcement after the new treasury accounts and distribution were done, so as not to be unfair, and I understand that point. But that assumes too much pre-planning for a truly decentralized starfish organisation. There isn't a board room , or cabinet table where decisions get made, then announced. Everything has to be as open as possible, otherwise its not a decentralized leaderless process.