Quote from: Biffa on April 27, 2015, 05:12:00 PM

OK lets take the Apollo miner to start with. Here is something that was basically a couple of hashfast boards strapped into a PC case. Not hard, should be able to sell loads right?

Check this forum, its got some of the most prolific home and small business community miners around, and how many enthusiasts got an Apollo? None, zilch, nada.

OK check ebay, check ebay history, see how many Apollo miners got sold there once they became inefficient, can you guess? Not one. Check the for sale forum here, none there either.

Quote from: notlist3d on April 27, 2015, 05:35:44 PM

I will bet there is not a big data center of Zeus macines.... this is a silly thing to say. Zeus was never sent to dogie, I believe they said they were going to do a blade or something and just never happened (please correct me if I'm wrong Dogie).

If they shipped them a picture would have ended up here or somewhere else. There simply just is not a Zeus out there. If you find the data center of them please take a picture for us.

That it is not completely true. Some examples I found on a simple Google search:

- https://bitcointa.lk/threads/hashfast-0-7-th-hashcoins-apollo-miner-for-sale.337630/ Someone selling his Apollo miner on a different forum, overpiced, but selling it.

- http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HashCoins-Zeus-3-5-TH-s_50016105616.html A malaysian distributor reselling Zeus in batches of 50 on Alibaba

- http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HashCoins-Zeus-3-5-TH-s_50015407806.html . An australian distributor reselling Zeus in batches of 3 on Alibaba

Can they be scams as well? They can, but as Alibaba acts as an escrow I see it pointless. Are they using mining chips from other companies? No doubt, they are probably simple OEMs, but actually I don't care as long as they sell a functional miner. Are out there many previous gen miners? Clearly not: maybe they manufactured few units, or sold them in bulk to few costumers, or simply they werent able to sell them due to high prices and they are using the stock for the cloud mining facility apparently they own.

Is everything a big and long term elaborated scam? It may be as you are the experts and me the poor scammed costumer. Or maybe not and I will recieve my orders. At this point we don't know: there are points that suggest they are legit, and points that suggest they have no real activity. At this point we can't discern it, so maybe is pointless keep discussing it. So by my side, I will just wait and update in this thread any news about my orders. But...

Quote from: TheRealSteve on April 27, 2015, 05:56:52 PM

unfortunately, 'scam' is the default position a company will find themselves in because so many companies turned out to be thus.

... I simply reject that idea, I don't aprove that. Personally I find it destructive for the community. Do we have to be cautionous? Of course! But accusing of scam any new company of user just because they arrive with something new favors only the stablished companies. In the time I've been here (28 posts) I have been already acussed 2 times. one in this thread and other one just because I wrote a guide of the Prospero X-1.5 miner.

Following that principle, I should mistrust users that accuse companies of scam, because they can be scamming in turn the company. I should mistrust reviews and opinions because they can be attemps to manipulate new users. I should mistrust the whole Bitcoin Talk because it could be an elaborated manipulation to stablish a duopoly Bitmain-Spoondolies. Very destructive attitude