Quote from: spatula on April 30, 2015, 06:11:25 PM

Quote from: coins101 on April 30, 2015, 08:53:21 AM

I had to give up counting how many Monero people are here.

Seems like a continuation of some sort of smear campaign. The 'cut off the head' approach.

I might now have take a good look at the deceptive launch of Monero and compare the two launches.

The purpose would be to consider what might constitute a scam launch and what might be considered legitimately a mistake. So on topic.

From memory about Monero,

The Monero launch included a launch pack that included some deceptive code aimed at rigging the mining for the material benefit of one or a few at the expense of the many. Also known as fraud.

Quote from: smooth on May 01, 2014, 12:37:16 PM

Quote from: TheCoinFinder on May 01, 2014, 12:35:57 PM

Before we can set up pools..
We need a miner.

Currently the mining is done In the wallet AFAIK

There is also a miner in the standard build, just no pool to connect it to.

Not long after launch, around one to two weeks, people started to smell a rat and at some point the Monero dev somehow did a runner, or possibly just changed account profile and carried (carries) on being involved.

Some of the early community members decided that, despite being only one or two weeks in, they would continue with the project rather than stop, fix, relaunch.

That smells a bit. Had we seen two or three months of effort, then maybe a continuation would have been more believable. People were smelling a rigged launch at the time:

Quote from: emontmon on May 01, 2014, 02:58:11 PM

i would like to propose a conspiracy theory here. could it be that TFT and friends created a problem where there was non, as they see the coin going up in popularity and thus limit ability for people to mine or participate.
1. yes mining continued: is this true can a non techy very this
2. increased frustration: people may hold of mining while a better wallet is in place. thus decreasing difficulty and increasing coin accumulation of those in the know.
3. a day later and still unable to access wallet from first page. people are pointed to github but I do not see a link there that says updated wallet. click here and your parse problems will be solved.
4. i recall i could not participate early because link was botched. there was no note underneath to clarify this for those new to cryptocurrencies. for 5 days I could not mine while tft and friends went about it merrily.

would tft go to such an extreme.... just speculating.

There is no dispute that Monero was launched with deceptive code intended to steal. It has been admitted by the lead devs:

Quote from: smooth on April 28, 2015, 01:11:58 AM

We've admitted to the crippled miner. We were the first ones to discover it, disclose it, and fix it. The reason I don't dwell on Monero's faults is not to hide them......

And the other lead dev:

Quote from: fluffypony on April 29, 2015, 07:52:57 AM

Quote from: coins101 on April 29, 2015, 07:22:18 AM

....
The "dev" who launched Monero is thankful_for_today: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=233561

Thankfully when we (the current Monero core team) found the purposefully obfuscated code we immediately fixed it and made the fix freely available to all. This is what smooth means when he describes the Monero launch as fair. As dga says, at most thankful_for_today would've had a week of advantageous mining, but as our difficulty retargetting worked just fine and we didn't have crazy high initial block rewards there was very little that the scammer thankful_for_today could've made off with.

Note that these are all facts, directly observable by comparing increases in difficulty (ie. network hash rate) with the improved hashing code submitted to github. It does not require trust, it does not require anyone to take our word that coins have been sold or distributed, it is not based on hope. It is absolute, truthful, factual, verifiable by all.
...

A fact cannot be considered subjective. Subjective is a view not based on fact.

Subjective views, such as the current Monero devs saying that they don't view a week or so of Monero fraud as meaningful because it wasn't that bad of a fraud in the great scheme of things.

Well that depends on your point of view. The police might choose to prosecute someone who steals a candy bar, because theft is in fact illegal.

So a week of fraud being acceptable is subjective when proposed as such.

Objective views are based on fact.

The facts are Monero had a scam launch and people made decisions not to stop, fix and relaunch. So you have to now own the scam launch code provided with the launch pack.

So far Monero has more of a provable launch issue than Darkcoin.

You see, we can all play these games all day long. If that is what you really want to waste your time on.

These are all really good points. Everyone knows that Monero had scam code built into it, its no secret. This is similar to the launch issues that Dash had, except there is no proof of a intentional scam like Monero.

If smooth is out to be a white knight of crypto and protect users from intentional scams, why hasn't he started a campaign against Monero? Maybe this whole campaign against Dash is not only to bring investors into XMR, but also to draw attention away from his own coins shady history.

It's also because he's a no good developer with no coding skills, he's the type who would have nightmares of Evan's success maybe he should go back to school or do online schooling to try and do something new to crypto World with he's so called no good Monero dev's. Or after copying a GUI wallet they are stuck with nothing to copy lol