Quote from: myrkul on August 27, 2012, 05:49:13 PM

Quote from: AntiCap on August 27, 2012, 01:14:04 PM

1) That's not for you to decide. I'll go to heaven. So will granny so it's not really a problem, but the robber or his estate should pay restitution anyway.

No, that's not for you to decide. The mugger shot you. If you can fight back against him, that's fine. But granny, and everyone else in range, did nothing to you. You initiated the conflict between you and them, placing you firmly in the wrong. Mugger might have to pay your estate, but you'll have to pay all the others. But then again, what do you care? You're vapor anyway, beyond the help of medical science. Perhaps you might have been saved from the gunshot, but certainly not the nuke.

Quote from: AntiCap on August 27, 2012, 01:14:04 PM

2) Says you. What makes your opinion the right one?

It's not opinion, it's fact. If I have a gun out, loaded, and pressed to your head with my finger on the trigger, I can kill you without you having a chance of defending yourself. If I have a nuclear bomb armed and ready to go off at the press of a button, I can kill everyone in range of the blast without the chance of them defending themselves. That makes them equivalent.

Quote from: AntiCap on August 27, 2012, 01:14:04 PM

3) Again, says you. They're at risk yes, but I'm willing to take that risk.
I'm defending my family by shooting him, so he's the aggressor and I'm the defender, right. Why should I be held liable for defending my family. Don't I have that right?

No, they're not at risk, as I just explained, you are threatening them.
And no, you're not defending your family by shooting him. You're attacking him. He is not pointing his gun at your family. Your family is running around on his shooting range.

Quote from: AntiCap on August 27, 2012, 01:14:04 PM

4) Why do you have to assume that? Screw those rules. You can't tell me what to do. Your perception makes it a threat, not the action in itself.

No, numbnuts. Let me restate that: never point a firearm at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot. That's the most basic rule of firearm safety. You can't say "screw those rules" and expect me to take anything you say seriously.

Quote from: AntiCap on August 27, 2012, 01:14:04 PM

5) Like how you trust the private sellers of handguns never to sell to a criminal? Heh, good one. But I'm sure the sellers ethics improve when there's more money involved.

Yes, indeed. When the liability of a negligence claim goes up, I most certainly expect that the sellers will do more extensive checks.

1) I did fight back against him, others just got in the way. If he hurts somebody else as a result of his attack on me, that's not my fault.

2) Actually in that situation you can't. Ask anyone experienced in hand to hand combat. They might "feel" threatened by my nuke, but that doesn't mean they're actually being threatened. Are those feelings enough to infringe on my right to bear arms? And what kind of weak ass argument is that? "They can't defend themselves against a nuke". That's the point. Or does everyone have to walk around with tiny guns that do minimal damage. What's the point of a weapon people can defend themselves from?

3) I disagree. I'm putting them at risk. I'm ok with that.
Ah, semantics. Ok, so then I'm not shooting at him. He just happens to lie at the exact spot on the ground that I was going to shoot at. He's at fault for lying around in my shooting spot. Problem solved then. No need for defense. Funny thing is, that spot actually moves with him.

4) Says you. The reason that you don't point a gun at anybody is to reduce the risk of accidental shootings. I'm OK with putting you at risk. "Give me your money or I shoot" is a threat. "Bang! Whoopsie, does it hurt" isn't.

5) That. Or hiding the fact that they sold it. Whichever is cheaper. This is supposed to be a totally free market, so I'm assuming there will be people willing to deal only with criminals. I sense a new policy here. Are you going to make somebody else responsible for one mans actions? Is the gun manufacturer/seller at fault for what the buyer does with it? Should the seller pay restitution to a victims family if the robber didn't have enough?