Quote from: jaysabi on May 13, 2015, 11:12:17 PM

Just responding to these two short notes in another good post by you. I also agree that this is the best approach for me as a "selfish tax payer." However, following this road is nearly guaranteed political suicide in the US, so it almost seems futile to try to pursue it. Being critical of Israeli policy opens you to a charge of being anti-Semitic, 'betraying an important ally,' or any other serious political crimes that a political challenger would be all too eager to use against you for their own political gain. It's unfortunate because as Israel's largest enabler, I believe we have a responsibility to hold Israel responsible for human rights violations. (Given our own track record, the case would ring hollow though.) Despite being the dominant military force in the area, Israel is still viewed as the underdog, and undercutting them inspires great anger from US citizens.

For the time being at least, I'm afraid you're right. But, I believe that is changing: younger and even college aged students, who are far less influenced by the traditional media and have greater access to information, aren't as caught up in that whole narrative, I think. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, there have been quite a few groups, and perhaps even a couple of university campus, joining the Boycott, Sanctions and Divestment movement, for example. That's one of the reasons I think Israel's attempts at derailing the peace process are so self-destructive: there is no way that, the longer this mess continues, the support Israel receives won't continue to wane, until it reaches the point that they are completely isolated in the international community - same as it did for South Africa, or Indonesia, before them.

Quote from: jaysabi on May 13, 2015, 11:12:17 PM

The book On Killing is really great. I can't recommend it enough. It's one of the most important books I've ever read considering the topic it deals with and how the military systematically extinguishes the natural instinct not to kill, and how important understanding desensitization is for our civilization in this era where violence can be inflicted on large numbers by so few and with such ease.

It's on my to-read list. Wink

Somewhat unrelated but, there was a three part interview The Real News did with David Swanson some time ago, that I think you might like (well, at least I did

):

"Lies and War - David Swanson on Reality Asserts Itself"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzwaSbWD8C0 - "On RAI with Paul Jay, David Swanson, author of "War is a Lie", talks about becoming a full time activist for peace"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM5qIvVLGg0 - "On RAI, Paul Jay and David Swanson discuss the culture and economics of war"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIcOdilpXUU - "On RAI with Paul Jay, David Swanson says that nonviolent campaigns have been more successful than campaigns of violence"

I particularly liked the idea they explore in the second video: that war is, in a sense, a "cultural invention", or that at the very least, the culture of a society has a great deal of influence in either promoting or rejecting the practice of war - as opposed to, war simply being just a part of human nature, and fundamentally unavoidable; or mainly economic/resource driven; or perhaps due to the way societies are structured and who has power in them.

The whole thing is a bit long though: about an hour.

Quote from: J. J. Phillips on May 15, 2015, 10:42:38 AM

Quote from: tins on May 14, 2015, 03:17:42 AM

Quote from: u9y42 on May 13, 2015, 09:43:32 PM

the land doesn't belong to Israel.

Yes it does. They were attacked and beat their attackers and took the spoils of war.
c'est la vie...

There is a related question I've brought up more than once:

Is Breslau occupied by the Poles?

There are consequences to losing wars.

But I do think I understand the position of many of those who say that the "West Bank" is Palestinian land occupied by Israel but Breslau is not German land occupied by Poland. Many people believe in some concept of "international law" which means that these kinds of questions are answered by certain "international bodies" (often offshoots of the United Nations). So the West Bank is occupied because certain "international bodies" say so, and Breslau isn't occupied because there aren't "international bodies" who say it is. I find this to be a scary way to look at the world, outsourcing one's judgement to "international bodies" -- but many people find it more comfortable than thinking things through for themselves.

Actually, as I've pointed out to tins (though he completely ignored it), Israel's own Supreme Court considers the occupied territories to be just that: occupied - as in, not a part of Israel, but under temporary occupation, pending some sort of negotiated agreement (an agreement that, as I've mentioned on several posts so far, Israel blocks). This is a position that the Supreme Court of Israel has consistently held since 1967. And in fact, when caught in related cases in the Supreme Court, even the Israeli government argues on the basis that it is an occupying power - as an example, when the government acted out the unilateral disengagement from Gaza, and was challenged by settlers in the Supreme Court, it used, and won the case with the argument that the settlements are only meant to be temporary (on the basis that it is supposed to be a temporary occupation, and that it is an occupying power).

Quote from: J. J. Phillips on May 15, 2015, 10:30:11 AM

Quote from: u9y42 on May 13, 2015, 09:43:32 PM

Quote from: J. J. Phillips on May 13, 2015, 06:14:07 PM

Wait, is this thread still going? I thought we resolved everything.

[...]

Ah, J. J. Phillips, I'm glad you're back in this thread. I think you might have missed my reply on the previous page: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1012231.msg11255554#msg11255554; in it, I answered your requests for sources and background information, and commented on the rest of your post in some detail - by the way, let me apologize in advance for the great wall of text. Wink

Also, the previous post, for which, at the time, you didn't have the opportunity to answer in full, is now back at page 6; here's the link to the post, if you want to take a look at it again: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1012231.msg11065074#msg11065074 - I touched upon, and somewhat expanded a few of the same points in my latest reply though, so feel free to merge those, if you will.

I saw your post(s) but haven't finished reading it yet. Thanks for the effort you put into writing them. I will simply have to wait until I have enough free time to devote to them before responding.

PS: I now recognize Vatican City as land rightfully belonging to Palestinians and will fully support those who apply all means available to return that land to its rightful owners.

Oh, good; I was worried you might have missed them, when I saw "[you] thought we resolved everything" - but that being the case, then I look forward to reading your reply to those posts.