Quote from: suchmoon on May 15, 2015, 03:32:48 PM

Quote from: Buckeye2015 on May 15, 2015, 02:58:03 PM

So, yes... I guess you could say that I respect the survivors (who would probably be pissed to be called that) for trying to turn those little alphanumeric strings back into something of value. And, I'm willing to give them credit for putting out xpy.io that seems to be functional. I think the hedgers thing is a new approach to getting more BTC into the environment, so that would, theoretically, help increase the XPY price from an 'economics' point of view. But, if the price of XPY doesn't go up, they won't be selling too many of them.

So let's take the next step and spell out what does it mean "to turn those little alphanumeric strings back into something of value". It means someone ELSE needs to buy their bags at a value they consider sufficient to cash out. We've had this discussion on GH and I still don't see how having large bags of worthless junk can possibly help to turn the Titanic around in any meaningful way. I mean being a bagholder does not make one an expert in finance or economics or cryptography or software development.

And I strongly disagree with your assessment of xpy.io. It is clearly a ruse to dupe smaller bagholders into locking up their coins. Do the math - a 10% fee to load a 3-month hedger that will return ~6% in 3 months (25% annual), probably less if the coin gets forked. Go browse around their website and come back with a link to their terms and disclosures and shit, I dare you.

Well, at this point, the shine is off of XPY, so anyone buying now is buying on the current markets. Why they'd buy it, I don't know... maybe they're day traders? BUT, they would not be buying because of a lie about a $20 floor. I bought QORA, does that mean I was victimized by some QORA bag holder? I find it interesting and wanted to buy some. I went to an exchange and put in an order. Now, if a bagholder wants their $15/coin back... how will that happen? No one is going to pay that on a market anytime in the near future.

As far as the XPY price rising... what's wrong with that? I sell shit occasionally... but given enough time and turning, town folks call it compost and rave about what it does for their gardens. I don't advertise it, just people hear about it through the grape vine. Am I ripping them off when they seek me out and give me $8 to throw a front loader bucket full of old shit into their truck bed? Now, if I sat there and said that was $1200 worth of oats and hay to produce that shit, do you think they'd fork over $1200? No, they'd laugh at me and go on their way. As far as I can tell, there are no more false lies being told about XPY that I can tell, so if people want to go to the markets and buy it. That's their choice. One man's shit is another man's compost.

The basic xpy.io IS intended to tie up coins. They've said that publicly that there are a bunch of stakers(?) that will be setting a bunch of coin loose in June and they needed somewhere besides the markets for those coins to go. So, they're letting people put their coin into the prime controllers and get the 100% stake rate. NOW, if you're into XPY, that sounds like a viable option. And it's no different than a bank CD type of idea as far as I can tell. I don't think there is any fee at all to put coins in the basic xpy.io service. I guess you just sign up and transfer them in.

NOW, the xpy.io hedgers do have fees... again, to me the fees are too high on them and I don't see XPY going up enough to make them profitable, so not my thing. But, from a coin perspective it looks like an interesting product and I would bet you'll see other coins trying something similar because it brings more BTC into the coin. I don't know that there are any written terms on their site, I'm going off of conversations in the hangouts. If there aren't any terms, I agree those should be spelled out clearly on the website. I think I've been to xpy.io maybe once? maybe twice? I'm sorry, but I have no interest in buying their products, so not going to try to find a link on the site. I said they seem to be functional based on the lack of bitching about the site. I've also never been to paybase, but it seemed like weekly (daily?) there were people posting that they can't log on, can't deposit, can't withdraw... either no one is using xpy.io or they're not having any troubles because I don't see those kinds of posts about that site.

And, again... I'm not buying XPY and I certainly would not tell anyone to buy XPY. For transparency, I do have XPY that was given to me by multiple people, but I still haven't even synced the blockchain on my wallet, so it's not like they're doing a whole lot of anything.

And, as far as "expert in finance or economics or cryptography or software development."... really, very few alt-coins have those elements... opal is being run by a kid that sounds like he's a 13yo. If there are people out there that want to spend their money or their BTC on alt-coins run by strangers on the internet, that's their option. Go to one of those gofundme type sites, they're full of unqualified people selling pipe dreams. This is the internet as a whole. It's well known that XPY is a peercoin clone now... so... if you want to use that as a basis, then we need to start screaming about 90%+ of the alt coins out there. Or we could use the huge pre-mine... but that's ? 95%+ of the coins out there?

My issue is that for the sake of the idea of crypto currency as a whole, we need to focus on running rusty chainsaws up the ass of true scam artists and publicly shaming them out of the community. But, for the people who are having their whack at it and bump along how ever well they manage... that's part of the internet and part of the new global village market place where the big corporation don't run things any more. I live in the boonies... I like decentralization... so I'm willing to make room for the bumps if it keeps us heading toward a world where the government and big corporations don't control my life any more. But, that's just me. I can see others thinking differently.