Quote from: Quickseller on May 16, 2015, 11:38:16 PM

Quote from: Snagglebone on May 16, 2015, 06:03:18 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on May 16, 2015, 06:27:02 AM

No. Bitcoin is a decentralized system where people do not need to trust a third party in order to send money to the third party. Either you need to trust the third party, or the third party needs to trust you if you are to send money to the third party.

Are you just not hearing yourself? In one sentence you say Bitcoin is a decentralized system where people do not need to trust a third party, then the very next sentence says "Either you need to trust the third party or the third party needs to trust you." Those statements are contradictory and is indicative of the fact that you don't understand how bitcoin works. I will touch more on that below.

Why don't you explain the below two things and I will bother responding to the rest of your post:

How does Bitcoin require you to trust a bank, or other similar third party when you are either holding onto your bitcoin or spending your bitcoin?
How is it possible to trade bitcoin for fiat without either party trusting the other party in any way whatsoever (nor them trusting any other person)?

I see even you have lost track of what you're trying to say within the twisted logic you're trying to use to prove your point.

But to answer your questions:

1. Bitcoin does not require you to trust a bank (where did banks come in to this?) or any third party when you are holding on to or spending your bitcoin. To tie it into the topic, Bitcoin does not default to a trusted relationship by saying "Hey, these parties are ok to trade with, but these parties are not!" That is what the DefaultTrust list does. It says "These parties are ok to trade with, these parties are not!" If you want Bitcoin to do that, you have to explicitly enable that through a variety of means, one being using an online wallet that is curated, a trusted intermediary, etc... Once again, you've handily made my point for me. Are you arguing against or for the DefaultTrust? Because you're doing a heck of a job arguing against it.

2. I guess that depends on your definition of trust. If we are talking about "Do I trust this person not to knife me in the gut in the middle of this crowded coffee shop?" or "Will this person stand up and run out the door the moment I transfer the bitcoins/hand him the cash, while in the middle of this crowded coffee shop?" then I guess there is a level of trust there that needs to happen. But if you disregard the basic daily level of trust you put into going outside and assume that as a given, then you don't need to trust anyone to trade bitcoin for fiat. You walk up to them, they hand you cash, you transfer bitcoins or vice versa. Heck, you could even mitigate that by trading with an established entity that does such. Then you'd be putting just as much trust into the transaction as you do when you buy anything, anywhere, in any store. Yes, there is a level of trust there, but that level of trust exists in your daily life anyway, so it's not an extra level of trust you have to develop or have someone hand hold you into. But again, it has nothing to do with the topic. Where did you even get off on the tangent of trading bitcoin for fiat? We are not talking about trading bitcoin for fiat.

So. I have answered your questions, now oh great one, by all means, please do "bother to respond to the rest of my post." Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule of saving newbies from themselves and making decrees on who is trustworthy and who isn't to debate with me. I do so appreciate how hard you must work and how grueling and tiring it must be protecting all the innocents from the big, bad scammers that lurk around every corner! You must be absolutely exhausted from all the mental contortions and twisting of logic to justify your increasingly murky and muddled point. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I grovel at your feet for taking time out of your day!