Quote from: JoelKatz on August 28, 2012, 12:06:14 PM

Quote from: Inedible on August 28, 2012, 10:06:03 AM

Was I aware of what I was getting myself into? Yes.

Then you are a scammer. You knowingly paid Pirate to fraudulently transfer other people's money to you without their consent.

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It's not like I didn't read payb.tc's warnings. It's not like he didn't say you stand to lose your entire gam...er...invstment.

That's not the issue. It's not what Pirate did with your money, it's what you paid him to do.

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Everyone's saying "a 3400% annual return rate - it's got to be a scam" - well I agree with you. Did I still take a chance, sure.

Okay, so you knowingly participated in a scam. You are a scammer.

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I don't think anyone who can think rationally could believe that there wasn't something fishy here, especially with no information as to how these returns were being generated.

Right, so you knew it was a scam.

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I'm also as suspicious of people who are calling people like payb.tc scammers, for exactly the same reasons.

Umm, how do you figure? You don't agree that they paid Pirate to fraudulently transfer other people's money to them?

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If you're a rational person who can think for themselves, how can people who operated passthroughs be considered scammers?

Because they knowingly participated in a scam and tried to profit from it. Duh.

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Some have said that they're scammers because they helped legitimise Pirate... how? Am I a scammer because I gambled? Did I legitimise him?

You are a scammer because you knowingly participated in a scam, paying Pirate to make you the beneficiary of fraudulent transfers of other people's money. Sorry, but that's the truth.

True or false: Pirate induced people to invest in him by claiming to have an actual business that turned a legitimate profit. You knew, however, that he was probably using new investments to pay off interest on previous investments. You knew or should have known that by investing with Pirate, you were in fact paying him to transfer some of those funds that others were lead to believe would be invested to you, which is in no way an investment of those funds.

How can you say that doesn't make you a scammer? How long until reality sinks in and the cognitive dissonance stops?

Ah - I think I see the problem.

There are two subtle issues here which appear to be being called the same thing by both sides and thus causing some confusion.

1) I've been scammed - I don't feel this to be the case as I went into this knowing I could lose my investment.

2) I'm scamming - This would only be true of people who went into this believing they would never lose anything (this can't be true either as they will have gone into it knowing what I knew) and me expecting my returns to come from those that invested after me (which I didn't).

Did anyone invest believing they wouldn't lose anything?
Did anyone invest expecting their payments would come from others who joined later?

Neither of those are true of me but I can't speak for everyone else.