Quote from: ItsDom on September 02, 2012, 04:51:33 PM

Quote from: dancupid on September 02, 2012, 02:21:22 PM

I started this survey and then decided I couldn't continue.

There is no such thing as a 'criminal act' until someone calls the police, the police investigate, there is an arrest and someone is convicted - all else is innocence in the eyes of the law.

Criminality is not discovered by opinion, but by legal processes. If I'm doing something illegal why aren't the police banging on my door?

The moment someone is convicted then I will accept that a criminal act has taken place - as far as I know no one has been convicted of a criminal act using bitcoin (ie Bitcoin is not being used for criminal transactions beyond hearsay).

Clearly everyone using bitcoin is behaving in a totally legal way (since no one has been found guilty of anything criminal).

If you (or anyone else) believe people are breaking the law then you need to call the police.

Quote from: ralree on September 02, 2012, 04:02:21 PM

The currency used to conduct a consensual transaction between two parties is not the issue. This can be done in Euros, Francs, USD, CAD, etc. Whether the government considers the transaction to be legal is another story, but as long as all parties involved in the transaction are pleased, what's the real problem? It's just job of government to ensure rights are upheld equally, meaning if one of the stakeholders in the transaction was wronged, he/she could use the legal system to make things right.

There are grey areas like prostitution, but that's largely caused by its association with the black market. Since prostitutes can't use police protection, just like drug dealers can't, they have to use pimps and thugs which come with their own problems.

Bitcoin should stay legal until cash is made illegal. US dollars are traded on the black market all the time, and no one seems to care about that.

You seem to both be taking a similar point here: it's not a crime if you don't get caught, and why should it be a criminal problem if both parties are fine with it - if they wern't fine, someone would call the police.

I think this is a big contributing factor as to why Bitcoin in it's current state wont be accepted. Through no fault of it's own, if someone does want to contact the police to inform them they're not happy with, there is no real means to. This isn't just a problem with Bitcoin, but with the internet at large. If someone sees something dodgy on the internet, typically they don't know who to call. But because Bitcoin isn't seen as a currency, when people do call because they have an issue, then authorities will be reluctant to step in. It's the same argument someone raised previously - the authorities need to accept the value of virtual goods.

I think the argument that both parties are happy with a transaction so it's not a problem, is a little short sighted. A portion of the criminal transactions with Bitcoin include weapons. I'm sure the person selling the weapon was happy, I'm sure the person buying the weapon was happy, but what about the person or people then murdered with said weapons? There's also evidence of people selling hacking services - e.g. botnets, tutorials on hacking, doxing, framing services. Again, I'm sure the hacker selling his services with Bitcoin is happy, and I'm sure the person buying them is happy, but what about, for example, the system admins and the other people trying to access a resource such as an eprints repository that was taken offline temporarily because of a DDoS?

I don't think the solution personally is to try and stop all criminal transactions or shutdown Bitcoin. I don't think it's as straight forward as saying people shouldn't be able to trade weapons. But the measures need to be in place so that should someone buy a weapon, use it in a way which is indisputably criminal (whatever that means?) then there needs to be measures in place to ensure that person can be caught. Knowing that a person has just bought that weapon might provide the crucial bit of evidence required to give a fair and honest trial that may result in the restricting a truly sick or criminal individual.

Personally, I think all people should be allowed freedom, but I don't personally believe it's possible for everyone to be totally free, because some persons idea of freedom will involve oppressing or impeding someone else's idea of freedom.

Thanks for at least taking a look at the survey though - you're time, input and feedback is hugely appreciated:)

Dom.

Instead of looking for answers in a survey that any joe shmoe can fill out, the better way of getting your answers and analyses is contacting companies like mine who process over 3m per month, MtGox, and the other exchanges.

We are on the front line stopping these types of transactions and working with all governments directly.

In fact, Im flying to Brazil next week to make a presentation for the Central Bank of Brazil.

I feel like you are just looking for people to give you answers to your questions in this survey.

However, if you dont ask the right questions, you wont get the right answers...and your questions are flawed and biased.

-Charlie