Quote from: cypherdoc on June 15, 2015, 03:45:23 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on June 15, 2015, 05:42:11 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 15, 2015, 01:07:09 AM

Quote from: gmaxwell on June 15, 2015, 12:35:55 AM

Though back to your question, if you've given up on spinoffs as a salvation-- what do you think is going to make Bitcoin competative against the eventual altcoin that actually gets the formula right and makes significant, no compromise, technical advantages over Bitcoin--- and probably doesn't bother to cut you in on it? Keep in mind, most of the people we hope will some day use Bitcoin haven't even been born yet. Unless we fail and sully the potential for cryptocurrency in the public's mind, this is only the very beginning of a long history.

Just FWIW, if the current Blockstream cohort does this there is some chance that I would convert over via proof-of-burn on reasonable terms, and especially if the clowns cannot be run out of Bitcoin (which doesn't seem eminent.) I'd want to see it backing sidechains and would want to see a modestly promising sidechains ecosystem in practice first.

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 15, 2015, 01:07:09 AM

... everyone who works in SV understands that rapidly gaining mkt share via the Uber and AirBnB model works and is crucial to outrunning regulation.

Pfft! How's that working out for you after half a decade now? Not well? How very surprising that a solution which is vastly inferior to the competition in the exchange currency space cannot get a foothold. Even with an amazing degree of media support, and even a surprising degree regulatory support here in the U.S. for that matter.

Edit: BTW, what the fuck do you know about SV anyway? 'Outrunning regulation' was no more a winning strategy than 'security through obscurity'. Sure, it can work fine...mostly when nobody gives a shit about you.

thanks for highlighting that pt. it clearly shows that i am correct in assuming that gmax is a Bitcoin Bear. but instead of working on improving Bitcoin proper, he wants to create SC's that shunt all value units out of the mainchain initially then all mining fees eventually. the key to me that he subconsciously knows this is his objections to raising beyond 1MB which would kill his for profit project.

Looks to my like Maxwell and the Blockstream guys are fighting a rear-guard battle to keep Bitcoin relevant in spite of both severe deficiencies which are evident after half a decade of practice and after significant internal attacks by quasi-devs. Bitcoin functioning in a role which hides it's deficiencies and allows it to leverage it's strengths is the best way to achieve this IMO. That is exactly what Blockstream is doing as I see it.

I might add that you never seem to miss an opportunity to try to put words in Maxwell's mouth. He didn't indicate that he wanted to see a superior system develop but rather that it is possible. It's ME who is saying that I may well be interested in both seeing it happen and to see Blockstream do it. If nothing else it would be outstanding insurance against scumbags like Hearn.

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 15, 2015, 03:45:23 PM

the mere fact that you would "consider" migrating your BTC over to a superior SC makes my pt even further. that would destroy all of us who have value stored away in cold wallets. the exchange rates on which chain appeared to be headed for obsolescence (MC vs SC) would be sold off en masse and along with it, mining hashrate would wither, thus making your ability to migrate through the 2wp close to impossible as your coins have to be mined into a tx proof with enough POW to be valid.

Slight correction: I'm not talking about migrating an 'SC'. I'll use SC's no matter what. I'm talking about migrating to a different reserve currency if you guys manage to torpedo Bitcoin. It's mostly that I'm not going to follow the herd off the cliff. It's not my nature. Beyond that, no, I'm not married to Bitcoin or any particular implementation thereof. I've got general ideas about what I want distributed crypto-currencies to achieve and they are more critical to me than any particular implementation.

I see Blockstream as a unique point in time when an unusual bubble of participants who I have some confidence in has developed. Although my confidence in them is not where I would ideally like it to be, there will probably never be another time when I can have the same degree of confidence in a particular group. Nor will there probably be a situation where the scumbag contingent is so evident and prone to trigger an opportunity like the XT fork.

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 15, 2015, 03:45:23 PM

and as for your assertion that Bitcoin is not doing well after 6y? are you kidding me? it's doing great. with Ripple Bank out of the way, with Ethereum appearing to have run out of money, all that is left is for Bitcoin to shed this Blockstream SC 1MB noose around our neck for it to take off to the races.

Bitcoin has remained viable on the back of subsidization as much as any, but it's got first-mover advantage which has allowed it to survive better than most. I'm not willing to bet my stash on the hope that the VC pockets never run dry. I've put some of their money in my pocket already and don't expect that they'll welcome an indefinite repeat of this process.