Quote from: Melbustus on June 17, 2015, 05:23:13 AM

Quote from: Peter R on June 16, 2015, 05:27:51 AM

Quote from: solex on June 16, 2015, 04:45:22 AM

I don't think the full node count would scale as far as 12m in the growth example above, but payment channels for node services would at least reverse the decline even when it becomes necessary to support that loading.

I agree.

I've been thinking a lot about full node count lately, and I could also imagine a future where node count continues to decline but network decentralization actually improves.

Let's imagine a distant future where:

  - Every major research university operates 1 full node on average (there's 108 in the US, 15 in Canada, and let's assume 150 elsewhere). That makes about 280 nodes.

  - Every major bitcoin company in this "bitcoin future" and every mining pool operates a full node. Assume another 280 nodes.

  - Various branches of governments in most countries run a few nodes. Assume 190 countries x 2 nodes = 380 nodes.

  - And a bunch of wealthy bitcoiners operate their own nodes. Assume another 300 or so.

This gives a total of only ~1,240 nodes, but I think such a configuration would be more decentralized than the current state of the network.

I'm not suggesting that this will actually happen, just pointing out that the network doesn't necessarily need hundreds of thousands of nodes.

^ I think this is spot on. The practical essence of decentralization is what needs to be maintained; that is not usefully measurable by a raw node-count number.

Szabo agrees, btw:

https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/610654279775461376

So looks like you're, as usual, in good company, Peter. Wink

Okay now take the analogy of Amazon being one entity controlling all 10,000 nodes, and then imagine the government controlling all those 1240 universities (and other institutions) because they are extremely visible and vulnerable to comply with regulation. Thus the universities are actually controlled by the banksters. Via regulation and other means they have installed their people as the leaders and powerful alumni at all major universities.

The name of the late One Handed Economist was Howard Katz, a Jew who graduated from Harvard. He wrote about how the universities have been captured based on his personal experience and other insights.

The only form of decentralization that is not ultimately controlled by the government are those nodes that can pop in and out of the network at any time at random places by random individuals. And not on hosts since the government will crack down on hosts if they need to. The government can't effectively crack down on every random person on the globe. They can crack down on the ISPs but if necessary we can use stenography to obscure traffic in normal web browsing. One of my major goals centers around building out a network for browsing that is impervious to filtering based on content. HTTPS is not sufficient since the certificate providers are compromised by the NSA.

I really can't fathom why some of you don't understand (or agree with) this. It is so blatantly obvious. I just can't understand how you guys think (or don't). Sorry I am not trying to be condescending nor insult you. But I really can't fathom how grown men can be so oblivious to reality Huh

(again the answer is because you don't want to know. You've willfully chosen to live in a world of fantasy because reality is a world you wouldn't want to live in. Most people can't deal with pain. They actively avoid it at any cost to rationality. I actually seek out pain and love to fight it, although this M.S. is pushing the limits of my tolerance. I remember when I was about 13 years old I used to immerse myself in scalding hot water in the bathtub.)