Quote from: cryptodevil on June 21, 2015, 10:11:13 AM

Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on June 20, 2015, 11:50:12 PM

And I still think it's sad when people don't believe, so I would hope people would convert even if only to live their lives doing unto others as they would have done to themselves (versus not caring what they do to others because they don't believe in consequences).

Typical retarded theist logic.

You don't need to believe an invisible sky-daddy is watching your every move in order to live within decent moral boundaries. In fact, if anything, those who are only behaving themselves because they think their invisible sky-daddy is watching are morally bankrupt already.

Let me explain the concept of objective secular morality:

The autonomy of consent serves to provide the basis for objective morality

Without differentiation which might warrant unequal consent; the overriding of the autonomy of another in order to protect them from the resultant harm of erroneously-reasoned refusal to consent; all autonomy is equally valid where informed consent is equally honoured.

Basically, I can have no expectation of my consent, or refusal to consent, being honoured if I do not honour the consent of others.

It's your "Do unto others" without the need for, "or else sky-daddy . . ."

"You don't need to believe an invisible sky-daddy is watching your every move in order to live within decent moral boundaries." - I totally agree.

"In fact, if anything, those who are only behaving themselves because they think their invisible sky-daddy is watching are morally bankrupt already." - I would agree if someone doesn't believe the sins are sins, and are just following the guidelines to not "go to hell" they don't have any morals of their own.

But God lays down a lot of laws in the bible, and some people are ok with (like thou shalt not murder), and some people are not ok with (like forgiving others who have harmed you). It sometimes takes a leap of faith to believe that following those guidelines is best for you.

In the forgiving others who have harmed you example, I heard this saying recently: "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned." By not forgiving others who harmed you, you hold onto anger, resentment, etc. When you forgive, the weight of the world can be taken off of your shoulders, and you can live happier. That's what I meant by consequences of not following the guidelines in the bible.

All you need to do is to believe in Jesus, forgive others and ask for forgiveness for your sins. You don't have to live a sin-free life, in fact no one can (excluding Jesus who did). People should not want to sin, because it's better not to, not just because God said so. But it's also a good idea to look into the guidelines to follow, because the hard ones, may help you out in ways you don't know.

Quote from: Buffer Overflow on June 21, 2015, 11:37:14 AM

Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on June 20, 2015, 11:50:12 PM

And I still think it's sad when people don't believe, so I would hope people would convert even if only to live their lives doing unto others as they would have done to themselves (versus not caring what they do to others because they don't believe in consequences).

Yes because believers never do anything bad. They wouldn't dream of moving the goal posts of what counts as good or bad to suit themselves.

Don't think I've read such utter slop in all my born days.

If you read anything I've written in this thread, you'll see I say everyone is a sinner. Moving goal posts of what counts as good or bad, is useless and idiotic, lol. Believing in God and following His guidelines will help you out more than you can possibly believe.

My point was that those who become Christians will try to be better, and follow those guidelines. Otherwise, people pick and choose as you said, and I agree people will pick and choose to better suit themselves, so those not believing will never pick the guideline they don't want to follow.

Using the forgiveness example above: A person gets molested by someone, and then years later becomes a Christian. They're reading they should forgive them, but they don't want to. It messed up their life, they are pissed. They still have nightmares, they believe the person does not deserve forgiveness. But they read that if they are to be forgiven, they must forgive anyone who wronged them. So they do. It takes a while, it's difficult, but they end up feeling free-er, like a weight was lifted, and can go about, as time goes on, thinking about it less and less. (Note: forgiving doesn't mean forgetting, so if they're still in contact with this person, they can be extremely cautious and avoid them too)

Same example, but the person never becomes Christian. They hear that Christians believe you should forgive others, no matter what. They choose not to, because they don't believe the person should ever be forgiven for that. They end up hanging onto that hate, and spend time talking to their therapist or friends, etc. Their friends may feel guilty, because what can they say to make it better? But they can't shake the anger. They focus on all the bad in their life that's the person's fault, and can't really move on and enjoy life like they could have.