Quote from: dooglus on July 08, 2015, 12:20:18 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 03, 2015, 12:33:14 PM

Given a difficulty leading to 16 seconds these 4 seconds would be huge. I mean the difference to orphan blocks or get block orphaned. Or isnt it needed to calculate a block?

I don't think you're understanding still. "Difficulty leading to 16 seconds" isn't what's happening. The difficulty adjusts how hard it is to stake a block. It adjusts such that we find around one block per minute. But blocks can only be found when the time (in seconds since some date in 1970) is a multiple of 16. That only happens every 16 seconds. That's fixed by the protocol (until the developers change the protocol again, of course), and isn't related to the difficulty.

Yes, but what i wanted to ask, just dice has the chance to find a block each 16 seconds. When jd really needs 4 seconds to go through all outputs then this is huge. Most other staking wallets dont have so many outputs so that they most probably need way less time to search for hashes. This sounds, at least, like the chance of find blocks that get orphaned are high. Not taken the time into consideration that other miners need to propage their block to jd.

When you think about it... clam can be lucky that you are the owner of jd. You easily could orphan all other blocks, where jd finds a block too, and only find blocks yourself, or raise that chance only so slight that its not found out. Nobody could proof how long jd needs to proof a block another miner found.

Quote from: dooglus on July 08, 2015, 12:20:18 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 03, 2015, 12:33:14 PM

So the 4 seconds are real and you meant it goes through each of that outputs (shouldnt it be inputs as long as they arent sent out?) and checks if it finds a hash? Does the output amount matter here? I mean you described rounding the amount of clams down to an integer. Does this apply to the address these outputs are on, so a big amount of clams or only to the single output? If the latter then one could get an advantage by sending the clams in amounts of 1 to a new address. The chance to find a block would be maximized?

It's a real 4 seconds. 4 seconds out of every 16 seconds the CPU on one core of JD's staking wallet server is pegged at 100%. They're outputs of the transactions that created them. They're not the inputs of any transactions yet, or they wouldn't be unspent. They're potential inputs, if you like, but actual outputs. When they stake they become inputs of the staking transaction.

I get now how you come to name them outputs. You see them from a protocol perspective. I saw them from the wallet perspective. They are inputs into the wallet. Though outputs transactionwise. Tongue

Quote from: dooglus on July 08, 2015, 12:20:18 AM

The rounding down to an integer was related to how the age of an output affected its staking power in an older version of CLAM. I think it used to multiply the value by the age and round down to an integer. I don't think it does that rounding any more, or the multiplication by the age. These days the staking power (called the "weight") is just the same as the value in CLAMs. Each output is considered separately. It doesn't matter if you have lots of 1 CLAMs outputs on a single address, or in lots of different addresses. They each get their own individual chance of staking, with a probability proportional to their own individual value in CLAMs.
There is a benefit to splitting your outputs up into several smaller outputs. Suppose you have 1000 CLAMs. It will stake very quickly, and become 1001 CLAMs. But then it will take 8 hours to mature before it can stake again. The best you could hope for it that it will stake 3 times per day (since that's how many 8 hour maturation periods you can fit into a day).

If instead you split it into 1000 outputs of size 1, each one tries to stake independently. Each one has a 1000 times lower chance of staking than the 1000 CLAM output did, but there are 1000 of them, so it takes roughly the same time for one of them to stake, and turn from 1 CLAM to 2 CLAMs. Then, however, only the 2 CLAM output is frozen for 8 hours while it matures. The other 999 CLAMs continue trying to stake. So you have saved yourself an 8 hour wait for 99.9% of your value.

If you split your value up into *too* many outputs, you'll have too much hashing to do every 16 seconds that you won't be able to get through it all. And if you ever want to spent your outputs, having them split up into millions of tiny pieces makes the transaction which spends them very big (and so very expensive in tx fees).

So there's a tradeoff - split enough, but not too much.

Ah ok. I thought about this. So i guess you could calculate the optimum amount of clams in an output in order to get the most stakes and consider the 8 h wait time. Then add the average withdraw amount over time with the staked clams and calculate the additional fees (for taking many outputs as inputs) into consideration too. Then use a server that brings down calculation time to < 1 second and you would have the optimum setup. Right?