Quote from: Erdogan on July 14, 2015, 04:49:29 PM

Quote from: Richy_T on July 14, 2015, 04:09:17 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on July 14, 2015, 01:05:44 AM

You have explained nothing, you seem to be fixated on the word intrinsic, and refuse to discuss what it is. In fact you got this right in a previous post: Gold's utility value is pretty low and its current price is mostly speculative.

By refusing to use the tools of the trade (the words, in this case), you at the same time refuse insight. It is common, but bad.

"Intrinsic" has a meaning. If economists (or Aztec) misuse that word and then go on to act as if it meant what it actually meant, then of course wrong conclusions will be drawn. Are we really just going to accept conventional economics on this forum or look closer and seek the truth? First principles man...

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?

It has four, unless a keynesian tries to count them.

Also linguistically, my use of the word is correct. A can of beer can cool your throat, make your jokes worse, give you a little energy and balance your bodys fluid contents. It is the intrinsic aspects of the beer that give you these services. It is contained in the beer, it is inherent, inborn native, inseparable, deep-rooted in the beer itself. The properties are therefore intrinsic, and it is the intrinsic value of the beer for anyone who prefer those things.

A bunch of dollars do not have these values intrinsically. You can, on the other hand, fill your pockets with dollars and go to bali, in the speculation that you can exchange them for beer. It is not certain, you need to find someone who has beer and wants to sell. The risk is low, but not zero. The money is liquid. The value of the dollars is not that it can cool your throat, they can't. You have to speculate that you can exchange them for beer. Wen you get there, you are only loaded with money value.

You seem to think that intrinsic means absolute, it does absolutely not mean that. It does not mean static, it does not mean physical, or hard, or measurable. Intrinsic value is not better than money value. In fact, money value is better because it is more general. (Well your body exists in the physical world, so you sometimes have to consume something). You can easily google the words meaning yourself.

By erring in these definitions, it is impossible to discuss bitcoin with gold bugs. "But gold has intrinsic value!!! It shines!!!". Who cares? We are here to discuss money, and as you said, the intrinsic value of gold exists, but is small, the money value is the important part of the value, and bitcoin has only speculative, money value. That is what it is all about.

The newcomers have a hard time with this, because bankers and other politicians all the time wants to obscure what they are doing. Use the correct words and lay it out, and it is easily understandable for everyone.

Well said. +1