Quote from: protokol on August 07, 2015, 03:59:36 AM

Firstly, thanks again for the clear reply - It's refreshing to read posts which state the author's points clearly, without emotional hyperbole.
The problem that you're getting at I think, is that abortion law is based on the fetus not developing to the stage of a "classical human", one that can feel pain, have thoughts etc. Although it is a valid point, I don't think it relates to what happens to the baby parts after abortion - the law states that babies can be aborted before they develop to a certain point, and PP follow these laws. I don't see any moral issue with them using the wrong technical terms for fetal organs.

Well at 20 weeks, fetuses have been proven to feel pain during abortions. I'm sure if doctors are doing those later term abortions, and are using then they probably know this.

But my point is that the law says fetuses aren't babies, or else it would be murder. It's becoming quite clear to me, that these people know they are babies, and that they are killing them. They lying to the women.

When a woman comes in to Planned Parenthood, they may just be taking a pregnancy test a month or so into it, and talking to the doctor about the results, when they start talking about tissues/fetus, versus a baby. The conversations may not only happen when they make the appointment for an abortion (where the woman has already decided).

Yet, my main point is that the law says they aren't babies. There is more information that shows those who work with them think they are babies. That means, the law is wrong.

But remember, my main concern/outrage is that they are doing illegal things (and most people don't care, which frustrates me), which I clearly wrote out previously. Keep in mind, my discussion of morality is only to give you a perspective.

Although the fact that they are making the births be outside the woman so that they can get a full specimen, is outrageous, both morally and murder legally.

Quote from: protokol on August 07, 2015, 03:59:36 AM

Now, your point about harming women is more serious. Are you saying that clinicians are putting patients in more physical pain than necessary, to increase chances of extracting better quality fetal tissue, without the patients consent? That would be unethical IMO, but not so if they warn the patient in advance, assuming the patients have agreed to donate the fetal tissue.

The video I was going to link to, doesn't work. But this is my post after watching it, the doctor is talking about the fact that it is easier to get tissues if the woman is relaxed and more dilated, but talks about "tolerance" of the woman impeding on how well they can do, which to me says they do push them as far as they can.

Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on August 04, 2015, 03:14:03 PM

Quote from: Wilikon on August 04, 2015, 02:50:11 PM

See the video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egGUE...

Once again they also show that they don't care about the patient. They want the patient to be awake, and relaxed, so they can get better tissue intact.... ugh.

The doctor says that their samples just don't come out as well if the woman isn't dilated enough. "You're pretty much maxed out and, that's their tolerance so sometimes it's a little bit more difficult. And if they're completely relaxed, it's easier to not do so many passes with the forceps. So it just really varies and like I said, a lot of it depends on the dilation that was obtained."

If they're getting to the woman's pain threshold, her pain "tolerance" to try to get more tissue, intact, then they are hurting the woman on purpose, when they didn't have to.

Quote from: protokol on August 07, 2015, 03:59:36 AM

Again, I don't see the problem with what they call the tissue, whether it's baby/human/stem cell tissue. It's not really lying because the term is just semantic, the women already know that their baby will die, and if they desire, donated to stem cell research.

But they are telling the woman that it isn't a baby. They are continuing the myth that the fetus is not a baby until it's born. They have to say this or else they'd be murdering babies. They just aren't being honest. Because if they were honest, they wouldn't be doing this, because they would realize it's murder.

The people who know they are giving away a human leg, and that they killed the baby, know they're murdering people and they do it legally. It's disgusting to me, that they don't care. The Nazis were killing people, freezing them to death, to learn how to protect people from cold temperatures. Humanity thinks that's wrong. But Planned Parenthood is killing people, and their tissues are being used to learn how to make a more flavor-able Pepsi. To me, that is worse, because it's not even to save people's lives! (and Pepsi's taste has gone downhill so it was pointless too).

Not that I think they should be killed at all, even if it helped raise people's life expectancies. Because it is still just as bad as what the Nazis were doing. Killing lives to save others.

Quote from: protokol on August 07, 2015, 03:59:36 AM

Fair enough, you don't think that this is an "everybody wins" scenario? It seems that the labs get their cells (to advance medicine and save more lives), and the patient gets their premium care.

No, even assuming it was done legally, because the women (and fathers) are left to deal with the emotional damage, and spiritual damage. From a Christian perspective, I do believe they get demonized for doing this, whether they think they are or not. Most will never know, honestly.

Quote from: protokol on August 07, 2015, 03:59:36 AM

Literally no-one is being victimised (apart from possibly the dead fetus, and maybe stem cell research facilities).

As I just said, from my Christian perspective, I do believe the parents are being demonized due to it also. Though I understand most will not believe that.

Quote from: protokol on August 07, 2015, 03:59:36 AM

They want an abortion for whatever reason, and I think we should respect that.

The problem is, it's quite clear to me, that most everyone can see now that the doctors clearly believe it's a baby, and the ones buying it know they're human organs. So it's time to change the law to say that it's murder.

Quote from: misterycoins on August 08, 2015, 12:10:45 AM

I want to know what these fetal body parts are being used for. If they are going to be used to find ways to help people live healthy and pain-free lives this does not bother me in the least.

I'm sure they are used for multiple things. But the fact that they had to write a law to make sure there were no baby fetus cells in our food, shows that people were ready to do that.

I also linked in this thread to the fact that the US government is making hybrid humanized mice. They also use them for vaccines, and based on the info I've read on those (not counting anything to do with fetus cells), I would never use a vaccine again, because people are getting sicker after using them. I'd say it isn't really helping whatsoever.