Quote from: elux on September 24, 2012, 01:34:00 AM

Quote from: repentance on September 24, 2012, 01:09:56 AM

I think Rassah has pretty much nailed it. Those who believe leopards don't can't change their spots (or at least no in such a short time) are going to believe that Sonny would surround himself with shady people in any new venture and so not take the word of anyone associated with him, so assurances from others involved in BFL are going to be pretty meaningless to them. Those who have absolute faith in BFL aren't going to be convinced otherwise by arguments about Sonny's past transgressions.

Sonny Vleisides has supposedly - albeit according to sworn testimony - lied to previous employees of his businesses about the nature of the business:

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18. When interviewed, PJ and Michael Swink stated the following:

a. PJ Swink stated that her company, Western Internet, worked for Sonny VLEISIDES. The work PJ Swink did for VLEISIDES included printing as well as stuffing and mailing envelopes. VLEISIDES gave her instructions regarding the preparing, printing, and mailing of lottery solicitations.

b. PJ Swink was unaware of the exact name of VLEISIDES' company, because it has had multiple names over the years. Based on conversations and other communications with VLEISIDES over the years, she believed "The Shamrock Agency" and "World Expert" were companies related to VLEISIDES. She believed VLEISIDES also used the name "Atlas Informaticos." Michael Swink stated that VLEISIDES told him that VLEISIDES was a licensed broker for these companies in Europe. PJ Swink and Michael Swink have met VLEISIDES in person.

Not sure what, if anything, can be inferred from this, as the Swinks would clearly gain from pleading ignorance.

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20. Henry Walther, who has pled guilty to one count of mail fraud and one count of money laundering and is cooperating with the United States government, stated the following when interviewed:

a. Henry Walther explained that the main people involved in the lottery were Houston, VLEISIDES, and Dennis Emmett. The business started with Houston and Emmett. Houston was the principal behind it. Cloud is Houston's brother or halfbrother, and lives in Amsterdam.

Is CLOUD a different uncle than the Chris (Not Sonny) Vleisides, President of Butterfly Labs?

There's a lot in the documents related to Sonny's past which is incredibly damning and very much at odds with explanations given by Sonny and BFL employees. But you can't force people to read those documents and nor are you ever going to convince those who believe there was a "government conspiracy" otherwise.

I find it highly unlikely that President/Director Chris is not entirely aware of Sonny's past transgressions, including all of the evidence presented in the indictment. Yes, it's possible that other directors (if any) have been lied to, but I wouldn't count on it. If you're a legitimate company, you need all of your directors to be legitimate. If you're shady, you need all of your directors to be shady. Whether BFL is legitimate or shady, I suspect that the directors are well aware of Sonny's past - there's just too much potential for grief if they weren't, especially when seeking outside investment.

Swink wasn't an employee and I wouldn't normally expect a contractor doing printing and mail-out work for a company to do much in the way of checking their client's bona fides much less verifying the accuracy of any information contained in the documents they were printing. Maybe they did know, but plenty of people and small businesses will never verify information given to them about the entities with which they do business - if it sounds remotely plausible, they'll just accept it at face value, especially if those giving the information appear to be prosperous.

People will know soon enough whether BFL can deliver the first run of ASICs on time and to the standard promised. Their lead time over competitors is not so great that they can afford a major fuck up on either delivery or performance.