Quote from: Bjork on September 25, 2012, 02:25:49 PM

I have no problem with the 200 btc going to you, however, the last two coupons were not part of the "repayment" right? i.e. those were dividends not counting toward the 1 btc owed per bond

This is correct.

Quote from: cytokine on September 25, 2012, 07:53:12 PM

Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld on September 25, 2012, 06:05:47 AM

He should pay 2000 soon and if he does we'll figure out the exact distribution.

Any ETA on this?

His deadline is tomorrow. We have negotiated this between Alberto, Nefario and me and it is extremely annoying to be asked for updates every day. This will not be resolved in a timescale of days.

Quote from: guruvan on September 25, 2012, 08:26:37 PM

meni represented the asset to investors. Investors have lost out.

I managed the IPO; I consulted for Alberto and helped him with the PR, and clarified that this is the extent of my involvement.

I did not give any sort of guarantee for the investment. I clarified that I have no intimate familiarity of Alberto. I clarified that people should invest based on their own trust in Alberto and not based solely on "Meni said its ok". I didn't even recommend buying the bond.

I did say I have confidence in Alberto, which was a poor choice of words, but still does not give me any more obligation than an analyst giving stock advice - he doesn't pay out of pocket if it goes bad.

I have also later recommended to sell the bond and indirectly used my own funds to facilitate the buyback. While the funds were insufficient for everyone to sell, everyone who did choose to take my advice got to. Those who ignored it have absolutely no claim against me.

I've done much more for the resolution of this than is my duty. The problem is that the more you do, the more people think you are obligated to do.

I grow weary of having to defend myself, it really amounts to people refusing to own up to their investment decisions and looking for someone to blame.

Quote from: guruvan on September 25, 2012, 08:26:37 PM

Meni should be doing the honorable thing here and putting himself in 2nd creditor position AFTER the bondholders.

I did not end up with 4000 BTC stake by choice, it's not really the kind of money I can afford to trust with any one person. My original investment was 2000 BTC, and while it increased a bit over time, most of the rest was due to money I gave Alberto in a desperate attempt to reach a quicker resolution, with a clearly stated expectation that it should be paid back to me soon. I'm well within my right to require paying me back to the 3000 BTC level before the public debt, and I'm not exercising this right.

The distinction between my debt and bondholders is arbitrary. I used to be a bondholder and I'm sure if that remained the case there would be no question that I should have equal share of the returns. The reason I exchanged the bonds for external debt is that the coupon payments were too much for Alberto and I wanted to help by waiving my right to the coupons.

And this brings us back to the "Meni is putting himself ahead of the bondholders!" conspiracy theory. A week hasn't even passed since the negotiations started. Alberto merely paid a token of good faith to encourage Nefario to remove the docs; we haven't formally discussed the distribution and I figured that could be deferred until he pays a more significant amount (which at that point would probably be proportional). But with the incessant second-guessing it's extremely difficult to carry out any sort of planning.

Quote from: IIOII on September 25, 2012, 09:22:48 PM

What gives me an unpleasant feeling is that he is still not communicating on the matter in an open way...

Look, you may be thinking that sharing publicly every bit of detail of internal negotiations the minute they are discussed is the right way to do things, but it's not. Not even a week (with its first deadline) has passed since the initial negotiations. When I have something to report I report it.

Quote from: Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย on September 26, 2012, 06:34:47 AM

Nefario did not help out the shareholders here by posting the scammers passport in public. The scammer now has the legal right to refuse to work with GLBSE or at least delay while lawyers clear up that mess. This is only going to get messy. Posting the passport in public is a crime in EU.

You're damned if you negotiate peacefully, you're damned if you negotiate aggressively, you're sure as hell damned if you take legal action and it takes years to recover a fraction of the debt...