Quote from: TransaDox on September 08, 2015, 02:08:58 PM

Quote from: keepdoing on September 08, 2015, 12:06:20 PM

I do feel for the OP. But this points out a MAJOR flaw in bitcoin..... the fact that it's leading supporters / proponents / educators are currently a merry band of inbred idiots. Here's why I say this....

All over this site, I see people screaming in fear about the dangers of not using exchanges to hold your Bitcoin. If you don't hold your private keys, you don't really have your bitcoin. So here you have this schmuck that goes out and dumps a bunch of bitcoin into a situation that he really has no discipline / technological maturity, or understanding, of what he is doing - and he loses his money/bitcoin. The reason this happened is because he probably listened to the advice of a bunch of idealistic morons on here - and ultimately he got over his technological head.

Which is SO DARN IRONICALLY AMUSING - because everyone here crows about how Bitcoin is a global currency, and yet they don't have the brains or wisdom to understand that the global population is NOT technologically savy to the degree that they can be trusted not to screw up their bitcoin.

This thread really is the best advertisement in the world for why people should put their money into a "Professional Fiat Bitcoin" style Exchange (Circle, Coinbase, etc). Because your money is not only protected better from thieves (they have much better security than the average citizen), but more importantly, loss of an individuals money is best protected from THEMSELVES - their own stupidity.

And yeah, the big money running the exchanges.... they are greedy, evil, part of the system, basically the same people that are migrating over from running the fiat banks etc etc yatta yatta yatta.

But lets be perfectly clear.... ANY TIME that a person on this board makes reccomendations to people (who they have no idea what their technological maturity level is) that they need to be in charge of their digital money..... is basically just as evil as the banksters..... because ultimately you cause innocent people to lose their hard earned money.

Ohh, and PS.... I hate bankers more than any of you, and at least I have put a few in prison, more than I guess any of you posting here can say..... But reality and wisdom trumps paranoid teenage-minded anarchistic views any day. Bitcoin needs to grow up if it is to enter the mainstream, become a global currency etc.

A bit strong. You make some points in between the vitriol and they are valid but its hard not to look past the vehemence.

I stand with those that submit that users can be their own bank and that it is a very desirable aspect to be in control of your own destiny. I also agree with you, that it is irresponsible to say that everyone needs to be in charge of their own money when they are not technically competent enough to use the tools to achieve it.

What I don't agree with is that people are stupid just because they can't use technical tools any more than my wife is stupid for not knowing how to ride a motorbike like me. The issue is we, as a community, are supplying the tools that enable us to use the system easily and not for others to use the system safely. From that point of view Bitcoin it is not ready for general consumption IMO, because the very bright, tech savvy people are engaged in defining what bitcoin is rather than thinking about how bitcoin is used. Until you get experienced developers who write applications - rather than programs - engaged en-mass, this is the way it will stay.

There are signs, though. Signs that usability is being thought about. They are disparate and disjointed, but they are there and the website seems to be one of them along with USB drive keys, wallet clients and so on.

I actually don't think it was too strong. I think it was appropriate. This board is filled with flaming know-it-alls that run their yaps without thinking of the consequences. And people get hurt. When I myself got into bitcoin I came here seeking knowledge and guidance. Many people sounded wise and thoughtful, seemed to have some technical savy, had been with a while so seemed to have experience. And no matter what scenario I pitched - it was all FUD when it came to "securing your bitcoins". Cue the dramatic scary music.

And I honestly believe that if I had been gullible and stupid enough to listen to the vast majority of people on this board - I too would probably have a story about how I accidentally wiped out my investment.

And in regards to the stupid comment - I think you are being unfair. Most people are, literally, stupid. They act like sheep, and they follow whatever voice seems to be leading the most people without too much thought to it. And I think there is a pleasant, peaceful aspect to being a sheep - but in today's world, acting like that is akin to a sheep mindlessly munching grass at the door of the slaughterhouse. Yes - there really are wolves, and they really are trying to eat you. (The whole - sometimes you are paranoid and sometimes they really are out to get you thing really is applicable more and more in today's world.)

So my harshness wasn't really towards the stupid sheep.... it was towards those in the "Shepherd" position in the bitcoin world - those people that are supposed to be looking out for the sheep..... aka the "experts and contributors" on this board.

also....

Quote from: DGulari on September 08, 2015, 02:15:26 PM

Children shouldn't play with knives. They are sharp. Should we get rid of knives? Are knives 'broken'?

No they shouldn't. And the direct correlation here is to blithely tell people without skill/experience in bitcoin to go play around with their bitcoin investment. I can tell you now - that people that have never done this before - should NEVER be instructed to have paper wallets / private keys etc as a first go at this. Like learning to swim, they should play in the Bitcoin Exchange Baby Pool, until they can go into deeper water.

And the "harshness" here is in the hopes that someone just getting into bitcoin will actually pay attention, and instead of A) Doing something stupid and losing everything, or B) turning away from Bitcoin alltogether and missing an opportunity to be on the cutting edge (slowly) - that they will actually carefully dabble their toe into Bitcoin, and grab a few, through an Exchange - using an Exchange Wallet, slowly exploring hte possibilities, and educating themselves.

Because currently, I can say from 100% experience that - a novice listening to some of the "security strategy" advice given on this board is about in as much financial peril as a person who refuses to sell his stocks at the clear beginning of a market crash because his broker told him its all good, and part of a "cost averaging strategy".

But with all of that said.... if you are giving good advice, then this doesn't apply to you.