Quote from: brg444 on September 08, 2015, 07:05:41 PM

Quote from: DooMAD on September 08, 2015, 06:26:43 PM

Quote from: brg444 on September 08, 2015, 04:20:43 PM

If you can't understand that a 1MB chain favors the entire network and not only "a small minority" you are either being intentionally dishonest or outright ignorant. Let me spell it out for you: a 1MB block size guarantees access to the most open, private and secure chain.

Open: every users has an ability to trivially run a node and store their wealth on that chain

Private: relying on SPV means relying on a third-party to relay your transactions, there are considerable privacy risks.

Secure: an ultra conservative block size allows the number of independent nodes in the system to grow infinitely, considerably increasing the strength and decentralization of the network. it enables possibilities like the commoditization of hardware such as the existing Bitnodes (https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/hardware/)

Now your obvious complain is that not everyone will get to transact on this chain since it might be considerably pricier. If we're being honest, that's not a problem. A strong & decentralized protocol layer will work as a guarantee that third-parties involved in superficial layers are being kept honest provided that their actions can be checked against the one absolute truth layer. That's the role you should expect Bitcoin to play in the future:

So you freely admit your ultimate goal is to make it as easy as possible for everyone to run a full node to support a chain they can't afford to transact on? Yeah, I guess I'll have to admit I don't understand how that benefits everyone. Because it doesn't benefit everyone, it benefits whoever has the most coins. Sure, let's disrupt the fiat monetary system, where everyone supports the system to provide tremendous benefit to a small, wealthy minority, with Bitcoin, where everyone supports the system to provide tremendous benefit to a small, wealthy minority? Oh wait, that's the same outcome, why are we bothering to disrupt it at all?

You're done taking ME seriously? Grin

It's simply not going to play out like that. There are too many factors you don't have control over to dictate that particular direction. Many of the people who are involved with bitcoin right now don't run a full node due to resource constraints, so it's not like new users are going to start running full nodes en-masse just so that they can be shunted off to less secure chains whenever they want to transact. The pressure will never go away for a larger blocksize and there's nothing you can do to prevent it happening. Keep dreaming.

Are you under the impression that Bitcoin is some sort of wealth redistribution scheme Huh

Running full nodes benefits everyone because it is the only way to make sure any party you are involved with in a transaction respect the rules of the game. If the governance of the system is concentrated in a few datacenters all over the world it becomes trivial to screw with the protocol and rewrite the books.

True it benefits directly mostly those who are rich yes since they can chose to transact directly on the Bitcoin blockchain without thinking twice about the price of doing so. Indeed, transactions fees are not a problem for a certain percentage Wink

of the world's riches. These select fews are most interested in the censorship-free aspects of Bitcoin. Multi-billion dollars international bank settlements. Aggregated remittances worth millions of dollars. Darkmarket actors supporting trillion dollar economy. These entities have NEVER been deterred by bank fees, hell they are used to BRIBE everyone around. That's much more expensive than any number Bitcoin fees ever promise to be.

These benefits are, by the way, already available to the highest bidders under the current fiat economy. What Bitcoin stands to do, is not necessarily make it easier for them, although it will, but to descend this ability down to the most common man, should he care enough to pay for it. If he can't then yes he is likely be "shunted-off" to less secure options but ones that will be binded to a digital contract so as to respect the rules of consensus enforced by Bitcoin's sovereignty. Now whether or not he transacts with the Bitcoin blockchain does not mean he can't park his wealth there.

The block increase pressure you speak of will disintegrate as soon as these additional layers can be made available. One should not forget the pace of development we have witnessed in the past 2 years. I fully expect payment channels of different sort to be fully integrated to Bitcoin within the next two.

That is how Bitcoin will scale. This is what I refer to when speaking of building an economy, and not a worthless, centralized payment system.

This should absolutely liberate the Bitcoin chain from any pressure to grow anymore or at least do so while staying in bound with the most conservative hardware and network development. Again, doing so will allow us to commoditize access to full nodes and make them trivial to run. Under this design the smallest Bitcoin users have the power to interfere if someone attempts to change the rules for the worst. That is a much more important liberty than the one to freely transact on any arbitrary chain.

The powerful idea behind this is that while not everyone will have the money or care to make direct interaction with the Bitcoin blockchain, they will all benefit by the trust it will shine on its economy.

Wow. That's a pretty dramatic change of tone from your prior post. It's almost as though I described your views in a way that would sound unappealing to a large number of people and you suddenly felt the need to adopt a more diplomatic approach to compensate. I doubt anyone's going to buy it, though.

Quote from: brg444 on September 08, 2015, 07:05:41 PM

A "one-percenter blockchain" is the only rational vision for Bitcoin, whether you like it or not. Fortunately for the first time ever you will be allowed a seat at their table. It will cost you some if you wanna trade with them but you will have other options to enjoy the security of your wealth.

Realised I better quote that bit for posterity in case you feel the need to edit it out, like when you admitted miners want larger blocks. Looking forward to the fork. It's going to be glorious.