Quote from: XertroV on October 04, 2012, 01:15:06 PM

Quote from: jojo69 on October 04, 2012, 01:19:06 AM

Quote from: enmaku on October 04, 2012, 12:51:50 AM

So when BFL releases some preliminary product renders and folks cry "fraud" you jump on their bandwagon and assert that when the crowd shouts "fraud" the burden of proof is on the manufacturer: "Prove to us you're NOT a fraud!"

Then when BitInstant releases a preliminary product pic and folks cry "fraud" your immediate response is "nono, that's not ok you guys, those making the claims of fraud bear the burden of proof, anything else would be fallacious!"

he's got you dead to rights there mucus

As elux was saying, there is a myriad of differences between the two companies - this is reason enough.

In addition to that, BitInstant provides services; they don't produce products. BFL do. When BFL say "we have this technology, please preorder", it is right for someone to ask for evidence (though an absence of evidence doesn't mean there are no conditions under which that is judged to be an acceptable choice); especially when it is something that hasn't been done before. When BitInstant post a photo they aren't asking for money, they're just saying "look at what we're working on", and yes, it is still right to ask for evidence - who doesn't want that - but at the same time this lack of evidence doesn't mean as much because there is less value (for the individual) in the truth of BitInstant's claim (IE: that they have a bitcoin debit card in the works).

The point of all this is not that you should or shouldn't be satisfied with what has been provided (that is, of course, up to you), but that there is certainly room for someone to not demand as much evidence from BitInstant as they would from BFL. Since such a position is not inherently contradictory the argument falls down.

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on October 04, 2012, 10:03:35 AM

Btw, what's the point to use Bitcoin-based debit cards? To convert bitcoins into dollars? Nonsense. Bitcoiners would better focus on encouraging others to accept bitcoins.

It allows you to save in bitcoin and use them very easily and very quickly. If nothing else, it is moving bitcoins faster in the economy, which is brilliant.

Furthermore, yes, bitcoiners need to talk to others about Bitcoin (and the bitcoin) and encourage them to accept the bitcoin as they do ~~money~~ other currencies; however, in the mean time this is an excellent compromise - it, at the very least, sponsors the movement of bitcoins through the economy (albiet in a needlessly complex way that involves fees and such and so is not as good for the economy as 'true' business in bitcoin), which is better than not at all.

What's the point? It is a bridge. Something that is useful to the bitcoin economy, but not as good as we'd like. Process is important, and this simply helps that along (for an analogy, think of why "half a wing" is in fact useful evolutionarily).

Anyway, just my 20 mBTC

That's a too good posting, you must be a sockpuppet! :-)

Cheers!

Ente