Quote from: SkRRJyTC on October 11, 2012, 07:51:29 PM

Quote from: NestEggNessy on October 11, 2012, 05:30:23 PM

Quote from: SkRRJyTC on October 11, 2012, 05:26:12 PM

Quote from: NestEggNessy on October 11, 2012, 05:24:18 PM

Quote from: SkRRJyTC on October 11, 2012, 05:20:43 PM

Quote from: dank on October 11, 2012, 05:09:49 PM

Are you saying this from experience or only by definition? If I told you I meditated and left my body, would you tell me what I experienced wasn't real, even if I said it was?

Yes. It is by definition, not real.

"Hallucinations involve sensing things while awake that appear to be real, but instead have been created by the mind."

You either have to accept that it was a hallucination, or decide that it wasn't a hallucination and was in fact real.

There is no such thing as a 'real hallucination'.

Do you accept that experience of the hallucination was real?

The experience was really created by the mind. It existed.

It was not real.

So then youre saying something can exist without being real. With that logic we could infer that heaven exists through his "hallucination" of it. If we want to go down that route then we can say that every experience is created by the mind and therfore all experiences exist but are not real, i.e music, relationships, movies, conversations etc...

The big difference you seem to be misunderstanding is the source of the experience. Was the experience caused by our interpretation of real external stimulus? Or was it caused by the brain itself?

Here's another definition for you. Words mean things you know...

"A hallucination, in the broadest sense of the word, is a perception in the absence of a stimulus. In a stricter sense, hallucinations are defined as perceptions in a conscious and awake state in the absence of external stimuli which have qualities of real perception, in that they are vivid, substantial, and located in external objective space."

i understand what youre saying about how hallucinations arent real in the sense that theyre not physically present so that others can verify their existence. Like you said, words have meanings and deeper implications, so in this case to hallucinate is a personal experience, much like being in deep thought, a trance, or dreaming. That being said you cant deny that those experiences mentioned exist in some way. The thoughts a person were thinking exist, the dream state a person was in last night existed, the state of mind of someone who is meditating exists. They exist because of real phenomenea such as someone who is dying from something real and in that time they bring this heaven thing into existence, nawmean?