Quote from: tonych on October 23, 2015, 08:25:03 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on October 22, 2015, 04:33:44 PM

Quote from: tonych on October 22, 2015, 04:04:15 PM

Got it. But I still doubt it is secure. With roughly constant flow of transactions, we have roughly constant PoW generated on the legit branch.
In Bitcoin, we always have better, more power efficient ASICs. The miner who is first to install a new ASIC, obtains temporary advantage over other miners (assuming all other variables equal). A new ASIC basically redistributes the constant flow of wealth (25BTC/block) among miners, ordinary users don't care.
In Iota, I'm afraid, it'll be profitable to use ASICs against users. If minimal PoW per transaction is small enough then a small battery of ASICs might be enough to outPoW the whole legitimate network armed with CPU PoW.

Bitcoin has constant PoW during a week too, I don't see how constant PoW leads to an insecure state. Would anyone create ASICs for Bitcoin mining if there was no subsidy (25 BTC) nor transaction fees?

While it is true that Bitcoin has constant PoW during two weeks, it is adjusted every two weeks in response to changes in the total hash power available. It is able to adapt. There is no reason to assume that the flow of transactions in Iota will increase in response to more hash power being available.

Will anyone create ASICs or build botnets specifically to attack Iota users? If Iota token becomes valuable enough, why not?

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on October 22, 2015, 04:33:44 PM

Security of Iota relies on assumption that an adversary controls less than 50% of hashing power. This is a standard assumption in cryptoindustry. Bootstrapping period will be protected by checkpoints.

It is not just an assumption, it is carefully designed incentives that drive people to behave honestly rather than try to attack other users. Satoshi writes this in section 6 of Bitcoin whitepaper:

Quote

The incentive may help encourage nodes to stay honest. If a greedy attacker is able to
assemble more CPU power than all the honest nodes, he would have to choose between using it
to defraud people by stealing back his payments, or using it to generate new coins. He ought to
find it more profitable to play by the rules, such rules that favour him with more new coins than
everyone else combined, than to undermine the system and the validity of his own wealth.

In Iota, there is no mining that would have absorbed any surplus hashpower. Where will this wild hashpower go?

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on October 22, 2015, 04:33:44 PM

Quote from: tonych on October 22, 2015, 04:04:15 PM

Thanks, terminology definitely helped.
So you allow to duplicate a transaction as long as PoW is also duplicated.
What about attempts to rewrite history by rewriting the envelopes?

In this example from the whitepaper, if I wanted to censor envelope F and the corresponding transaction (because e.g. it contained a spend that I want to roll back), could I "route around" it by spending some electricity and rewriting references in envelopes of E and B so that they no longer point to F but somewhere else? Then there are no references to F in the graph any more, I can safely delete it and share my version of the history with other nodes. How will they know which history is right?

The history with the heaviest tangle is right. To rewrite the history you need to control most of the hashing power.

Why? I'm guessing after I rewrite envelopes of E and B, I have to also rewrite all envelopes that reference them (A and C), then the envelopes that reference those who reference, and so on until the tips, correct?

Min transaction PoW will naturally increase over time mimicking Moore's law when more powerful hardware appears. Multiply this by TPS increase caused by increased popularity.

ASICs indeed will be created.

Satoshi's assumption was shown to be incorrect - http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~ie53/publications/btcProcFC.pdf.

Necessity to absorb surplus hashpower is not obvious, also what numbers do you have in mind (1% of not used hashpower, 10%, 99%)?

There is no such thing as rewriting of envelopes, you can only add new ones unless you conducted a global eclipse attack.