Quote from: iCEBREAKER on October 28, 2015, 01:37:23 AM

I doubt Gliss wants to dig into controversies and make judgement calls.

Let's keep this simple.

Dash has removed the "No Premine" claim from their [ANN] thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0).

CMC should be updated accordingly, otherwise it is making a judgement/claim that the coin's OP does not.

Q. E. D.

Quote from: dnaleor on October 28, 2015, 12:20:33 AM

Quote from: Gliss on October 27, 2015, 05:04:22 PM

I addressed it 6 months ago, what exactly has changed since then?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11221343#msg11221343

There is more information.
Specifically about the pre-launch of DASH (XCoin back then): Evan was looking for C++ devs to launch a "for profit startup", an "altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". (his words)

Quote from: Gliss on April 28, 2015, 11:28:14 AM

Given the debate here, it's probably best to take the significantly premined mark off of Dash until we can figure out a more appropriate solution. I agree that instamine is not the same as premine.

I see a few options here:
1) Change label to "Significantly mined around launch" or something among those lines
2) Make an instamine label
3) Not care about tracking instamine

I'm preferring #3 because "instamine" is not a well defined term and can be applied subjectively.

I propose to change labels as follows:
Coin¹ Not Mineable (MAID, ...)
Coin² Fastmine, announced before launch (Blackoin, ...)
Coin³ Premined, announced before launch (Gulden, ...)
Coin⁴ ICO (Ethereum, ...)
Coin⁵ Proof of Burn (XCP, ...)
Coin⁶ Premine/Instamine: significantly mined around launch, not announced before launch

Coins could get different tags, some examples:
NXT^{1, 4}
Ethereum^{3, 4}
Blackcoin^{1, 2}
Counterparty^{1, 5}
Dash⁶

Read my post from a few days ago for more info:

Quote from: dnaleor on October 26, 2015, 12:46:00 AM

I want to ask you to reconsider adding the **-tag to DASH:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.

---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

=> DASH was clearly a planned premine/instamine.

and this one:

Quote from: dnaleor on October 26, 2015, 01:40:40 PM

Quote from: stonehedge on October 26, 2015, 12:36:35 PM

I believe that the reason that Dash isn't considered premined is because numerous people were able to mine from launch.

I expect that the **premine tag was removed because there is no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that mining was restricted in any way.

If you look at the facts, it was at least a planned instamine:

Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin.
How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
Answer: by premining and/or instamining.
How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.

How can this be all an accident and NOT be intentional?

iCEBREAKER... shouldn't you be over on the Dash thread trolling like you do EVERY DAY for the past year screaming "INSTAMINE!!!"?

All coinmarketcap has to do is browse through your post history to know you are a paid Dash troll. I have personally proven with my posts analyzing the blockchain, difficulty, hashrates, etc, that the entire Dash founder team couldn't have possibly mined anywhere near 100% of the 1.5m coins you claim, even under the most optimistic assumptions for your argument. In fact, I showed you how they couldn't have gotten even 500K, assuming no downtime (which is impossible given the updates that were issued), no rejects (also impossible at a time that blocks were generating so quickly that EVERYONE was getting lots of rejects), and a bunch of other rosy assumptions that couldn't be true. In fact, the numbers I calculated and posted (and I know you read) show the max they could have received is a hair higher than the number the devs have claimed for a long time to own. And most of those coins they claim to have bought on the open market in the days after the coin launched, which would almost have to be the case (based on my calculations that I posted) to get to the numbers they claim to have (because my calculations required a bunch of assumptions that clearly aren't true).

Then there's the argument above that he is doing this for a profit. No kidding?!?! I thought he quit his job to work on Dash full time out of the goodness of his heart and concern for the rest of us!!!

Oh, then there's the "proof" that Dash is a scam because Evan had 5,000 x-coin to "throw around" the first day? That is only 10 blocks reward. Anyone mining that first day would have received that many.

The Coinmarketcap guys addressed this issue six months ago. You've been screaming instamine every day for a year. Give it up... enough evidence has emerged over the past year to practically prove the dev is being honest about his holdings and where he acquired them.

Your tactics are despicable. I applaud coinmarketcap for not getting involved in petty disputes perpetrated by holders of competing coins.

Tip: next time to want to lobby for a change like this, you really should consider creating another login. At least pretend not to be a Dash troll.