Quote from: 1aguar on November 02, 2015, 06:49:13 AM

OK, if this is about logic, then it must be a type of debate; let us carefully examine your unfortunate errors together...

Quote from: BADecker on November 02, 2015, 04:58:12 AM

So, you believe that I am God. You admitted it above. And, not only am I God, but all the other people are God.

OK, I agree. Now I am going to write in large paragraphs because each of the following paragraphs (5 total) is a succinct rebuttal/antithesis that I would like you to address; I will continue to summarize, simplify, and shorten points so that they are more succinct and organized as our discussion goes on, just like we have done before; most of the items below which are in quotes are from the Bible, but I have omitted the citations; to those who are not familiar with the Bible, and to you, BADecker, I think it would help to look up these phrases and read the whole chapter containing them... Now, let us see the result of this "logical debate" right here and now:

Quote from: BADecker on November 02, 2015, 04:58:12 AM

Well, a bunch of other people called Christians got together and used our God power to make the Triune God to be God over all. We can do it - according to you - because we are God.

Why do you think it is possible to make another God when you are God? When God Creates, the result is Creation. When you realize "I and my father are one" in your own life, then you will "have just a little faith and be able to move a mountain into the ocean". See, it always comes down to being responsible. God gave this gift to YOU, and if you try to return God's gift to the one he sent as a messenger, well that is no different from trying to go to the bank and instead thinking the bank is at the post office; that is no different from disputing an escrowed transaction with the third party instead of "settling with thy adversary", no different from "being a servant of your Master and hiding your (Master's) gifts/talents in the ground" (Matt. 25). God's Kingdom is within you, so those "riches stored up in heaven" are probably within you as well, you just have to "access your inheritance" as a "joint-heir" (brother) with 'the Christ' ("cosmic Christ" or energy, and YES, ESU IS AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL, HOW ELSE DO YOU THINK HE CAN COME? and his name is Sananda (ONE WITH GOD); HE describes in some of the Journals his past experiences as one named Emmanuel, but Esu doesn't object to being called "Jesus" if the intent be toward Christ being). You don't need a co-redemptress (Virgin Mary) and you should not worship the messenger because he said that "God's kindgom is not here" and it is "not of this world", but it is "inside of you" (and by the way, this part is detailed in the Gnostic gospels that were conveniently left out of your studies), I can only point you to the truth, but you must study it and "see the logic" for yourself; if you protest about "Biblical authority", I can only think that your authority comes from a very NARROW and TAMPERED perspective that does not fit in with a holistic (whole) view of the life of JESUS.

Quote from: BADecker on November 02, 2015, 04:58:12 AM

The Bible says the same thing when Jesus quotes the Old Testament and says, "You are gods to whom the Word of God comes." So, now we have the Bible making us gods, and we have us gods making God to be God, and the Bible to be His holy book. At least according to your logic.

This part of your "logic" is quite funny to me; you say that it is in the Bible that "you are a God" and that this is so "at least" "according to" my logic? Are you not the one who claims that the Bible is complete truth and supreme? I am the one who claims it is Holey as in "full of holes" and that you need to use a proper understanding in filling it in, like in understanding WHO God is and that you are the one who works miracles "greater than these". That book has been used to teach evil (e.g. story of Isaac) and the enemy has had a long time to corrupt a great many things in that book, the "interpretation" of the churches (and this includes you, BADecker) is based on a VERY NARROW set of Gospels, obviously excluding PJ #2, which is THE ONLY COMPLETELY VALID GOSPEL. So obviously the KING JAMES Bible, Book of Mormon, and other "BIBLES" are not the best one(s) to look at if you are trying to understand God, and that Biblical "WORD" is not inerrant for it is tampered and made from the hands of many men, it is not the true WORD for GOD IS THE WORD, the "talk of the town" is that GOD'S KINGDOM IS WITHIN YOU and Jesus Christ knew he was God. So wake up and find out eventually who you really are. In our culture, of course, theyll say youre crazy and youre blasphemous, and theyll either put you in jail or in a nut house (which is pretty much the same thing). However if you wake up in India and tell your friends and relations, My goodness, Ive just discovered that Im God, theyll laugh and say, Oh, congratulations, at last you found out'. (Alan Watts, The Essential Alan Watts) Well, then INDEED you are GOD so YOU are supreme, or at least you will "be blessed" with GRACE if you wisely use your supreme power to "seriously understand and be responsible to Heavenly Father's Laws" (Psalms 1). That is the plain-spoken message of the OT; at least according to these two quotes I discern thusly, so what is wrong with my logic HERE? Your interpretation matters not a bit if it is not LOGICAL; that OT says that we are CHILDREN OF GOD... HE IS THE FATHER, WE ARE THE "SONS"; only through "THE SON" can GOD'S KINGDOM COME; that means all of humanity and it also means YOU, so who are you to designate one member of humanity ("Jesus") as GOD if that ONE is not YOU (ONE WITH YOU)? That ONE (Sananda) who bears a new name is ONE WITH GOD because he has had to learn his own lessons and grow into his ONENESS by understanding... HIS ONENESS!... SO THESE THREE ALL MEAN THE SAME THING: "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" AND "THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU" AND "YOU ARE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD". GOD GAVE YOU SOVEREIGNTY, BUT YOU SHALL NOT GIVE IT UP UNTO ANOTHER NOR SHALL YOU DUMP YOUR EVIL ACTIONS UPON ONE YOU LABEL "GOD" OR "CHRIST", FOR EACH ONE MUST BE RESPONSIBLE TO FATHER AND "ONLY THROUGH THE CHRIST PATH (I.E. PURENESS IN HEART) SHALL YOU SEE THE FATHER" AND YOU CAN ONLY BE A "SON OF GOD" IF YOU ARE A "PEACEMAKER", NOT ONE WHO "MAKES A GROUP" (CULT) TO DIVIDE SELF FROM ALL; YOU SHOULD NOT FORGET THAT JESUS WAS YOUR BROTHER BECAUSE YOU BOTH CAME FROM THE FATHER.

Quote from: BADecker on November 02, 2015, 04:58:12 AM

Get off it and come down to logic and reason. Even your Phoenix Journals say that Jesus of the Bible is God in this way, because we Gods are making Jesus and God of the Bible to be God over all.

Well, in "making" that you are making a CULT; that is YOUR CREATION. I strongly suggest you go back and read PJ #29 about cults.

That is a mistake because "Jesus" is NOT YOUR GOD, HE IS YOUR BROTHER, as STATED PLAINLY in the quote that you misunderstood, and this is ALSO understood by the above three famous quotes from the OT and NT; it is very saddening to me that you are not aware of more of the Journals, especially that you have so far refused to read the only valid Gospel despite being such a big "follower of Jesus"; I hope to open your eyes just a bit, my brother and that you can see why my intentions are honest, but to be TOTALLY honest I don't want to waste much time in the discussion for I have "beams that I need to pull out of my own eye"; I pray and act upon my hope that you come to the light, my brother; I have heart and I am just glad that we can continue our discussion until mutual satisfaction, for you are not my adversary, and I wish you the best, I pity your confusion and hope you "come to your senses", and get on board with the truth as taught by that Teacher, of grace, or God-consciousness, or enlightenment.

Quote from: BADecker on November 02, 2015, 04:58:12 AM

What's the matter? Having trouble reading what I say? I'm not even trying to get you to read the Bible. I'm simply showing you from your own post and your own PJs how you are proclaiming Jesus of the Bible to be God.

I hope there is no "trouble", my friend; I am always happy to discuss my perspective with you; I hope you will see that my opinions here are logical and that the message of these two books are not only similar but also fairly different; I think the difference is most clearly apparent to anyone who even reads this one post of mine on our discussion, but especially for those who can realize their own sovereignty and who will refuse to surrender that power to a book, even if it is from God's Messenger. I am not sure about what the Bible says about it but I think God has sent MANY Messengers, but I doubt that only God's Messengers were involved in creating the Bible; it seems to me that man does a lot more bad than good on this planet, and that the society we have now is in danger of collapse as a direct result of the moral collapse that has gone on, but the solution is not "old time religion"; we need to realize our power, so let us reach out to truth and God; after all, to be a Christian means that you follow ~~Christ's~~ Jesus's example and his Law (teaching; Christ path); to be Christian means you know how to move a mountain, and you can also "do greater things" (and if there is any confusion, you can just "seek out the truth and find it"!), and this is because you will know that "I and the Father are one", but you do not need to identify "Christ Jesus" as your "savior" to be a PEACEMAKER, for behold, he never did ONCE suggest that he was your "savior"; he plainly told us that we are all Gods and brothers, and that we needed to repent for our wicked deeds, he never said that we could dump those wicked deeds onto him and get mercy by his deed or his death or anything like that; why don't you read PJ #2 and tell me where in THAT Gospel you can find support for such an interpretation?? I hope to make peace with you, my brother, I want to help you and convince you that I am a follower of the Christ Way, BROTHER; I wish to mention again that you should read Journal #27 about "GOD'S INSTRUCTION MANUAL" and that if you have any disagreement with the rules in that book then we can easily discuss what is essential to "being blessed and understanding God's Law" (Psalms 1), for I think you will not get such a deep understanding of the Journals (LET ALONE THE BIBLE) from what little I have posted here about them.

You are so good.

I read only a little at the top. Maybe I'll read the rest later.

First, let me say that I was only remarking about your thinking. I wasn't saying that I agree with it at all, necessarily.

Second, we took responsibility right at the beginning when Adam and Eve fell. We lost our life through Adam and Eve at that time. Taking responsibility now based on the way things were before Adam and Eve fell, is something that doesn't work. Things have been corrupted. You can tell from the fact that we get old and die.

Then Jesus of the Bible came as a real man at the same time He is God. He corrected the failure in mankind. Now, it is our duty to take responsibility through Jesus, believing in His salvation. If we believe in His salvation, we can take responsibility in our lives based on that. This responsibility has to do with trusting that Jesus will bring back life to mankind through the resurrection. After all, believing Jesus doesn't produce life in us now. We still get old and die.

If we reject Jesus, then we take the responsibility outside of the only method we have for taking Godness and eternal life. When we do that, we throw Godness away, the thing God gave back to us after Adam and Eve threw it away the first time when they sinned, the thing that God gave back to us through Jesus salvation.

Pick up your responsibility. But do it the only way you can to gain eternal life and Godness. Do it through God - that is, through Jesus - because it is the only way you can keep Godness when you pick up your responsibility, because it is the only way that you have to actually pick up your responsibility.

In fact, you are acting responsibly through Jesus of the Bible. Why? Because after the fall of Adam and Eve into sin, it is the only way that we all have to pick up our responsibility. Don't through yourself away by not accepting the only way. Jesus is holding your choice open for you. Stop making the wrong choice, except if you really want to, that is.

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Your outlook is different than mine. That's okay. There are all kinds of outlooks in life. Various people and groups have outlooks different from either of ours. Have a great religious life while you last.