Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on October 20, 2012, 08:51:33 AM

Quote

Fuck them nefarious bastards who kill chickens, use some kind of secret herb and spices, have me pre-order, then make me wait in line for my meal.

~Bruno K~

Eh, yeah, completly missed it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote from: theymos on October 20, 2012, 02:20:49 PM

Quote from: dishwara on October 20, 2012, 07:32:49 AM

How many persons will be given scammer tag in this forum for not paying back the double payment?

If you know that you received extra money, I think you have a moral responsibility to try and return it (maybe minus a few percent).

However, in this case:
- You can't return it to the rightful owners directly.
- Nefario is obviously very incompetent and untrustworthy, so it would be reasonable to think that returning the money to him would not get the money to the rightful owners.
- Nefario is holding hostage your assets and the BTC of most users, so I think you would be morally justified in refusing to return the money until those things are released.

So I'm certainly not going to give recipients of the extra money scammer tags at least until Nefario releases most of the BTC and asset info.

Quote from: Deprived on October 20, 2012, 12:17:57 PM

In short, nefario has been less than honest and open so far - both to users of GLBSE and to his own business partners. There's, thus, no reason anyone should be willing to take his unsupported word on what they're owed. And how much should be sent back anyway? Has he even ever stated whether the whole 2nd payment was an error - or was it meant to be sending the last 10%?

Note: I received all (I believe - though can't confirm obviously) my tiny amount of funds back in the first batch of payments. I haven't received any 2nd payment so have nothing personally to decide whether to return, how much to return or who to return it to. If I HAD received an overpayment then I'd be putting the 2nd payment in cold storage then waiting until I had the information necessary to determine precisely what I WAS owed AND had either received back control of my assets OR received a good explanation of why they weren't being returned before sending any funds anywhere.

If he's spewing funds around at random then there's no guarantee returning them to him would get them to whoever their rightful owner is anyway. He could have just disabled trading/transfers and left the site up so we could withdraw and verify our holdings now that he no longer required ID information. And if there's specific accounts that he can't do that on (e.g. if he has been given specific instructions in respect of asset issuers) then the withdrawal functionality could have been removed from them.

Quote from: deeplink on October 20, 2012, 03:19:00 PM

Quote from: Namworld on October 19, 2012, 11:02:41 PM

Quote from: deeplink on October 19, 2012, 07:03:50 PM

A thief asking to return his stolen money is like asking for "fucking respect".

If you deserve it, you will get it.

That's the thing, you can believe as much as you want that he's incompetent and be angry all you want about GLBSE's closure, in the end, he hasn't stolen those funds. He's trying to distribute them and accidentally rerun the script for the 90% payment. Those funds are needed to pay those who haven't been paid yet. Keeping the funds to do yourself your own justice for GLBSE closing down and making you wait? It's the funds of other depositors you'd be keeping. It's not harming Nefario at all, I don't think his reputation could sink lower around here. Only thing keeping the funds can achieve is depriving other depositors from getting their balance paid out.

You can point to other people and say they are the reason why you have no responsibility for your failures. But that is not how I tick. I have hundreds of customers myself and if I make a mistake I always fix it. Even if it costs me money. Customers are never responsible for my mistakes. And I expect the same from everybody else. It is about taking responsibility. Morality will come second. I am sure most people are still honest here and if they feel you deserve it, they will return what is not rightfully theirs. But only after the people responsible for this mess have cleaned it up as good as they can.

Deprived, theymos, deeplink, I understand those points, but Nefario has already lost his reputation and I see no reason he would accept any such blackmailing since it's not his funds. Although as I said, Deprived, I perfectly agree that request to return funds should be communicated properly and people can and should request an official request from Nefario, along with an account statement showing your final balance and assets.

The issue in holding those funds for not trusting Nefario (even if there's no doubt good reasons to not do so) is that it belongs to other issuers. Holding the funds as escrow to force Nefario to release any data makes you appoints yourself as arbitrator and fund holder. This forces whoever those funds belong to to trust those refusing to send the fund back with their money over trusting Nefario, something they never consented to.

If I understand correctly deeplink, you want them to pay for unreturned funds from their own pocket and release info before sending them the BTC which would end up reimbursing what they paid from their own pocket? You're free to do that if you want. It does seem like their funds are tight, but as many already/are planning to return funds, I'm sure they can come up with a few 1000s USD for the remaining. Albeit I don't agree with people appointing themselves as escrow in the name of others, especially since they can't give or deny consent for this.