Quote from: schwab on November 10, 2015, 06:03:22 PM

Quote from: armedmilitia on November 10, 2015, 01:56:16 PM

Quote from: schwab on November 10, 2015, 11:30:51 AM

I just think, if you are going to go for, go for. If you are putting your money into something just to get a few dollars off, that's thinking of the short game. If you are investing in yourselves, this technology, and the future there are many paths to choose. Starting a co-op that could become a payment processor for the future, a data center for the next generation, and at the same time increase revenue while cutting costs is a titillating idea.

Woaaah there! I want to keep this as simple as possible. The goal for the purchase of Avalon6s is not just to save a few bucks, its to establish a viable structure for future buys--in particular the SP50 when that comes up for general sale. But the end goal is to save quite a few bucks, make ROI easier for small miners (including me!), and that's pretty much it.

You are essential doing it, except without the legal backing for recourse against potential problems and clear definitions of what happens next. Currently this is actually a more convoluted way to accomplish the goal with less recourse/assurances should problems occur sooner or later.

Phillip mentions some the problems that could arise with multi-sig funds, those are unavoidable at present set up. These multi-sig holders are basically the elected board in a legal business venture/co-op set up. Though it is being based here, by only a few people with mere interest in the group buy and no firm commitments or deposits.

There's talk about what comes after the prepaid period, or the determined period of time of mining, selling miners off or renewing contract. This is the share voting, except without clear instructions, rules, or alternatives to what if risk scenarios.

What if enough people want to cash out, pushing the remaining group buyers that want to continue on to do so without the discounts already in place. The ability to buy/sell shares helps eliminate this threat to those that would continue on with the group, should a significant number choose to cash out and sell.

Then there are the legal ramifications. What if someone runs off with the money, is there only internet posts and witch hunting/doxxing to try and figure out where each user's money went. Having a clear structure with the details needed to be a trustee/board member of an incorporation help clarify the individual(s) accountable in case there is theft or mismanagement.

What if it all goes broke, GND/CB burn to the ground or disconnect and run off ala FriedCat. Would there then be multiple suits brought out by individuals at each their own cost or legal fees?

If the true goal is to allow lower costs and higher profits with increase in ROI, there are still plenty of legal ways to accomplish this outside of gentlemen's agreements via web boards. At the estimates mentioned, it is handling initially around ~>$60,000 of users money to provide a stable set up, and a system to be used for future purchases. Everything is going the right way but without the legal backing if anything should ever go wrong or into disarray.

Multi-Sig Holders - Board of Trustees/Board of Directors
Miners/Buyers - Share Holders voting on future of the group
Hosting - Contracted signatory in charge of use and upkeep of equipment
Web Board Messages - Voted on by-laws the Co-Op is held accountable to.Better the interests' of share holders with clear definitions

Everyone interested in this buy, needs to think about the risks involved and the futures at stake here in the beginning, before a snowball is set in place.

*edit a couple of fuckery wording

Phillip has a point with the multisig--the less people needed to sign off on a transaction, the better odds that a few people go rogue and take the funds. We need to be careful in choosing who holds keys.

You know what though--you're right. Doing this "informally" works totally fine, right up until something goes wrong. I wouldn't want this to spiral out of control.
If we were to form an actual cooperative, AFAIK members would have equal rights in voting regardless of investment. That probably won't work, because people with the largest shares will be underrepresented.

Now, my knowledge of corporations/cooperatives in Canada is limited, but I'm certain we'll be on the hook for taxes on income/incorporation fees. I've read that if we have less than 50 shareholders, we can avoid a lot of legal trouble with Canada's Securities Act (but I am not a lawyer!). We'll definitely need a lawyer to take a look at the articles of incorporation. This stuff is expensive and takes time. I need to sleep on this, and think of a plan going forward.

At a glance though, this seems like a web of legalese.