Quote from: Hyena on November 19, 2015, 04:18:22 PM

Quote from: phoenix1 on November 19, 2015, 12:50:30 PM

It's called 'perception bias' - only looking for evidence that supports your pre-determined ideas and ignoring the rest. Can be happening at a conscious or subconscious level.

FWIW I would never deny that TPTB spin events to suit their agendas - I am not that naive, and its pretty damn obvious to anyone who is half awake, so pleae don't smear me as another sheep that blindly believes the mainstream narrative of every world event. I also don't blindly believe 'conspircay theorists' either. There is certainly good evidence to support some theories, but in this case, you are gonna have to do a much to better job to convince me.

Kind of ironic that you started this thread with talk of an Illuminati agenda and have then proceeded to push your own agenda as hard as possible.

Thanks for getting my point about being critical and actually considering the "evidence" instead of starting yelling insults right away. As for the perception bias, same thing could have affected you. It's easy to criticize just about any theory if you want to. My agenda is not to convince you that something I say is the ultimate truth. My agenda is to make you question the official story. You have to admit that there is something fishy about all this ISIS and migrant crisis. How we find out the truth? We poke holes into each other's theories and eventually come to an objective understanding. Without your criticism I would only have my subjective understanding of this situation. Now, thanks to you, I have pros and cons for both stories. Take the role of the devil's advocate to truly understand something.

Thanks for the reasoned response. My post was 'strong' as I did not think you would be very open to it. I am glad to be proven wrong Wink

. I don't belive I am suffering from too much perception bias here, as I have already been questioning the official story from the moment I heard there was a Syrian connected passport showing entrace thru Greece next to one of the suicide bombers ... an odd thing to take with you if you do not intend to come back. Maybe it was planted afterwards, maybe it was meant to be found. Apparently it was a fake anyway ... the plot thickens ...
I have read somewhere ISIS are allegeldy not too keen on Muslims fleeing to Europe, so perhaps closed borders is something both sides actually want here. Not enough (reliable) information to know.
I would have questioned things even without that, but it was one of the first things I read ...

To me the attacks are without doubt being used to further nationalist agendas, such as closing borders and (at least in the UK) justify futher surveillance measures. That comes as no surprise - it's politics and spin, and perhaps (some of it) even a justifiable response, but it's not enough on its own for me to ~~question~~ negate the narrative.
At the moment, my opinion is that the attacks are the inevitable result of events set in motion by Western policies after 9/11, and immigration and other policies predating that by decades. You keep poking the bear, its gonna attack (might sound simplistic, might even have been intentional, who knows?)

As for the deeper veins running through this, who funded whom and when, unintented and intended consequences ,the religious aspects etc that have been running for centuries, I find it impossible to untangle the situation and form a firm opinion. All I can say is that I think we are arriving at a pretty ugly crossroads now and that it is very hard to see a simple way back or a peaceful way forwards.

All pretty depressing to be honest.

In a way, the people who manipulate narratives are no different to those who manipulate markets. The seedy underbelly of the financial markets is a form of violence in itself, with abuse of power, and manipulation of emotions and information the weapons. They have always existed and always will, on both sides. It's just one aspect of human nature and the lust for power and the lure of ideologies. Has there ever been a was fought by two sides who did not think they were absolutely in the right ?
As you say, almost everything has the element of subjectivity. I am just trying to stand back and keep a reasonable perspective in order to stay sane, and not get caught up in the sabre-rattling of those who would like to control my thoughts for their own benefit

Its the play of life unfolding before our eyes, shaped by the energy of everything that has come before and probably leading to an almost predetermined place. Oh to be able to step outside of it all, and look down from far above to see the direction of these many forces that are guiding us and where they will likely lead. Life has 'inertia'. To me this is more interesting to look at than to point fingers, as mostly I don't see the significance of the individual actors so much. They are just the ones that picked up on the nuances of the existing time and rode the wave to great power and/or destruction. If it was not them, it would have been someone else. A confluence of time and place and circumstances that inevitably leads people to gladly give away their power/join a particular cause. History rhyming again and again at different orders of magnitude. Subconscious energies playing out in relatively predictable ways. Those energies are more important to understand (to the degree that that is possible) than the words that are spoken and the minutae of the events they precipitate. People are always very eager to point to finger of blame outside of themselves, thereby admonishing themselves of responsibility, ignoring the real demons that lie within, which are the root cause of most of their own problems, and the problems in the outside world IMO. Until that changes, well, nothing much is going to change ...

TLDR: Until we sort our own shit out, nothing much is gonna change Cheesy