Quote from: asdf on November 01, 2012, 08:58:16 PM

Quote from: Jimmy Chang(y) on November 01, 2012, 05:01:18 PM

5. The only point I am trying to make, is that tax itself is not the problem, the governments are.

What is a government without tax? What is a tax without a government? Can you really separate the two?

You either have some arbitrary power deciding what good cause to spend other peoples money on, or you can have each individual deciding for themselves what good cause they wish to support with their own money. If it really is a good cause, you don't need to rob people to pay for it. The end does not justify the means.

I am merely saying that taxation could be used better and that tax itself is not the problem, but how it is spent. But you seem to be in the same boat as the other guy's here who see it is as 'robbery'.

I don't for a second buy into the idea that if you did not have taxes people's charity would be enough to cover the costs of supporting those who need it. As I have said earlier, we have charities today, yet we still have world hunger. To me, it seems fairly apparent that if people are not even charitable enough to stop people from starvation, they're not going to be charitable enough to pay for say, free healthcare or improving a road system that they will never use, but will help society in general.

So unfortunately yes, people do need to be forced, as I have said earlier, people are too greedy for unforced charity to cover the costs of the needy.

Quote from: Richy_T on November 01, 2012, 05:10:34 PM

Quote from: Jimmy Chang(y) on November 01, 2012, 05:01:18 PM

Now I know your going to disagree with number 5, but rather than focusing in on that, read everything else I have said. I agree with a lot of what yourself and Richy are saying.

And once I agreed with a lot of what you're saying too.

So there's hope for you yet

Here's an important thing to consider when it comes to taxes and "good government"

The sentiment always seems to be "Everything will be OK if we can just get the right people in charge *this time*". There are no "right people"

Now this is a very good point, but in a system without tax, the power simply shifts away from a centralised government and more likely than not, into the hands of the big conglomerates (yes I realise this is what we have today anyway). The problem is power corrupts, we all know that, but I don't see how having no taxes would be a step away from centralised power, if anything the powerful would become more powerful and the poor and needy... (well going on how charitable people are) dead or in a worse place than they are now.

I agree with you, on the "Everything will be OK if we can just get the right people in charge *this time*" but what is the solution? I don't see the removal of tax helping the situation at all, only worsening the issue's we all ready see around us daily.