Quote from: myrkul on November 03, 2012, 02:23:53 PM

Quote from: Jimmy Chang(y) on November 03, 2012, 01:59:07 PM

I'm thinking along the lines of those who are physically or mentally challenged, people who are severely ill, children without the support of a parent(s) for what ever reason, people who cannot find work (but are willing, not talking about the benefit society like in England, where you have a whole demographic of society who don't even want to work, because they are better off not working). Its obviously a lot more complicated than this but you get the picture.

The government is not altruistic, I have never said that. Merely that tax COULD be beneficial in a society, if only it were not spent on paying off corrupt bankers or flooding cash into weapons development to fight illegal wars. But then we reach RIchy T's point on insanity.. doing some thing over and over and trying to find the 'right guys', who always turn out to be no more right than the last... which I will admit is a valid point, but what is the answer???

No tax? Well I just don't agree with you there.

Well, here's a thought... Have you ever considered that those endeavors - aiding the severely mentally or physically challenged, providing care for orphans, etc, could be run as for-profit industries, while at the same time providing work for those who desire it, but cannot find it, and removing the incentive that drives the welfare culture? (We have one here in the US, too, btw... it's a predictable consequence of giving out free money that some people will stop working for it.)

As for people being greedy, yes, they are. But as I have previously stated, the US is one of the most givingest nations on the planet. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of thriving charities. What you point to as their failures is in reality, simply their inability to keep up with the rapine of the world's various governments. An aid package is sent to a third-world nation, and a local warlord comes along and steals it to use to support his army.

If over and over again the people in charge of stealing your money to help others have decided to help themselves, maybe it's time to take control of that yourself and help others without the forced third-party?

I have seen what happens when you have privatisation of public services and would argue that once you have profit in the equation it always seem to be just about the profit, and not much else. A charity by its nature is funded by people's good will, for someone to then use that as a platform for profiteering, is wrong, in my opinion.

I think you know how I feel about you calling the US one of the most 'givingest nation'. You only need to look back in history to clearly see that most if not all of the USA's wealth has been stolen (yes I know, everyone else was up to it too, but does that make it right? especially for someone who is so against 'robbery') So to even hint that the US altruistic is pretty weak, when you consider they took everyone's shit in the first place. Thanks giving always made me laugh, the celebration of genocide? or am I missing something?

Even in your own example, it is again the governments which are the problem, not the taxes, which is what I have been saying all along, your last point is very well put and I agree with it, but I don't think the answer is no tax, It seems you'd like the free market to do what tax is doing now? But surely we all know what happens when a free market is left to rule? Look around us right now, many of the problems are due to less stringent regulations.

I think the key point here is what is the alternative? A question no one can seem to answer, but I cant see how removing tax is going to benefit anyone in general, except a small % of the worlds population who might feel a little more flush.

The problem has and always will be the government.