Quote from: MPOE-PR on November 08, 2012, 11:01:38 AM

Quote from: JoelKatz on November 08, 2012, 12:30:11 AM

Quote from: SgtSpike on November 08, 2012, 12:07:26 AM

I am relatively certain the only one who agrees with Joel in this thread is Joel.

If so, that would be a terrible shame. It would mean the Bitcoin community learned almost nothing from the Pirate collapse and is likely doomed to repeat it. When people can make mistakes and harm others with no consequences, markets cannot function.

Yeah yeah, right. Stop trying to present yourself as some sort of thought leader of a process you have - to the best I can determine - absolutely nothing to do with.

A much more intellectually honest approach would be to present your crackpot theories somewhere apart (such as in the Offtopic forum, which pretty much exists for this very purpose) and allow the world to ignore them on their own merits rather than trying to interject yourself in discussions between the adults and trying to piggyback them on actual issues of actual import.

We get it, you feel you're one with the whole, you think everything's the same and all are the same one thing and bla bla bla. It doesn't work in the real world, it's not interesting in the Bitcoin world, it has no merit, no value and no importance. Stop wasting my time with it.

Quote from: nomorecoin on November 08, 2012, 12:59:09 AM

Quote from: JoelKatz on November 08, 2012, 12:30:11 AM

Quote from: SgtSpike on November 08, 2012, 12:07:26 AM

I am relatively certain the only one who agrees with Joel in this thread is Joel.

If so, that would be a terrible shame. It would mean the Bitcoin community learned almost nothing from the Pirate collapse and is likely doomed to repeat it. When people can make mistakes and harm others with no consequences, markets cannot function.

I agree with Joel. To aggressively rail-road him over his opinion in a thread essentially asking for the community to weigh in on a potential scam only discredits the original case.

You are very much mistaken. This thread is not asking of "the community" anything at all. This thread is telling the community a simple fact (ie, that PatrickHarnett is a scammer, and that it's unsafe to take him at his word from now on), is presenting to the community the proof for that fact, and is asking the moderators to enact this fact into the little symbolic representation they use in this particular venue to sum such facts up.

The community is, jointly or severally, perfectly free to ignore the facts. The net results of ignoring the facts are never going to be a "common mistake", they will be their mistake, wholly owned and quite personal, and the results theirs to bear entirely.

The moderators are perfectly free to ignore the facts too. All that'll do is make the symbolic representation a little less relevant.

None of this discussion has any impact whatsoever on whether PatrickHarnett is a scammer or not. That is something you can't vote, either as a "community" or as a congregation of moderators or as anything. Only PatrickHarnett can make himself a scammer. Unfortunately for him, he has done this already.

Quote from: cunicula on November 08, 2012, 01:11:15 AM

If you introduce a tag like this, you allow more leeway for people like Patrick.

Again, that PatrickHarnett is in default is not the point of this discussion. PatrickHarnett is a scammer, aka a liar and a thief, not an honest businessman in default. The last thing scammers, aka liars and thieves need around these parts is more leeway.

Quote from: cunicula on November 08, 2012, 01:11:15 AM

It is a simple fact that the MPOE's loan to Patrick was imprudent.

Simply stating that makes you an idiot, are you aware? How exactly is loaning to the most respectable (at the time) forum "bank" at rates a degree of magnitude under market "imprudent"? No, never mind, don't answer that. Just get lost.

Quote from: AndrewBUD on November 08, 2012, 01:25:17 AM

Say I borrow 120 BTC... 2 weeks later I get robbed or my house burns down........ I would be unable to pay right away until my life got back together.. Would that make me a scammer?

This is not at all what happened here.

What happened here was that PatrickHarnett took some money from some people at fixed rates, looking to make a profit. He made some bets that, contrary to his expectation and contrary to his high regard of himself, turned sour. Instead of manning up to this failure of his, such as for instance by skipping a month's discretionary expenditure in his life, putting that money into BTC and paying out he went the classical Peter Lambert route: played double or nothing with his customer's money (in this case by buying discounted pirate debt with money he represented as not exposed to pirate - also a classic).

All through this he felt no need to kneel before his intellectual superiors, those people more intelligent, more competent and more versed in these matters, present his stupidity which he thought was "a plan", be told it's a stupid idea and not a plan and obediently (as the intellectually inferior are held to do) given up on his stupidity which he thought was a plan. Because oh why don't you know, PatrickHarnett is such a smart financier, even better than Kludge the Bancoclerk, and he can pull off things.

If it had panned out he'd have made 50-500% on the capital, paid 2-3-5% to his investors and counted himself a great businessman. Since it didn't pan out he doesn't want to sell his house and move into a shelter where he belongs, because he figures (correctly) that the forum is full of idiots anyway and who cares about what they think.

This used to work just fine but then Mircea Popescu happened and pretty much that meant the end of this sort of bullshit. You're welcome, and fuck you.

Yeah, not sure why anyone would of had any faith in Pirate after he had lied so often......... ^ sorry to hear you lost some coins...... 500 btc? would you really want someone to sell there house over 5 grand?....