Quote from: mobodick on November 08, 2012, 03:17:46 PM

Quote from: memvola on November 08, 2012, 02:55:22 PM

Quote from: myrkul on November 08, 2012, 02:47:05 PM

Yes, Zeitgeist is communism in another skin. Adding computers and robots does not make a planned economy work.

Actually the idea of "machines doing all the work" wouldn't be a too alien idea to the people leading the industrial revolution. The machines are indeed doing almost all of it now if you take into account what "work" meant back then.

The problem is that no technology can take away human drives. Notice that since the industrial revolution people don't work that much less, they just work on other things than machine work.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been saying.

Quote from: mobodick on November 08, 2012, 03:17:46 PM

No, it doesn't work that simple.

But most people don't care about reaching this kind of enlightment and just want to work for food so they can have kids and support their family.

And why is that?

I think enlightenment is one of the primitive components of human existence. I think we naturally strive to find answers to metaphysical questions about our condition, which lead to all sorts of interesting constructs like science and religion. I think we destroy people's natural curiosity in order to create a more robust machine. Humans are born thinkers.

Having said that, the overall production output would drastically decrease, not because people go dumb. Quite the opposite. But then we'd be taken over by a society that train specialized, well-behaved professionals (that have probably produced a shitload of guns in the meantime).

Quote from: mobodick on November 08, 2012, 04:02:06 PM

Quote from: Lethn on November 08, 2012, 03:46:32 PM

LOL you mean to tell me you can say with a straight face that a detached and delusional political class knows better than human beings who have to work for a living what skills are in demand in the current market? Don't make me mock you, because I will.

In your system those hard working skilled worker would have never acquired the skills needed because when they enter the makrket they are clueless. As a child, when the time is optimal to get skilled, they would have absolutely no idea of what the market requires.
So yes, the deluded politicians still have a better idea about these things than a kid that needs to decide a future for themselfs.
If you would let that choice to the people you would get a dysfunctional society because noone wants to do what needs to be done.

I'll call this an argument out of lack of imagination. I learned to program C when I was 14 (around '91) without even having read a book about programming because I had friends who were also interested in it. This was not possible because I was somehow smarter or naturally more curious. It was possible because learning programming without support was possible. Most skills are out of reach of the uninitiated. You have to be oriented towards it, you have to prove to society that you are worthy of being in a privileged position to be introduced to a subject. You have to let yourself get indoctrinated with a specific school of thought that dominates a specific discipline.

I'm mostly imagining a society where there is no distinction between a teacher and a student, or a place of work and a place of study.

And "no one wants to do what needs to be done" doesn't prove much. If no one wants to be a janitor, you pay more to janitors. Done. Why is this even a problem? Having specialized man-machines is a useful thing of course, but a society formed by flexible individuals capable of thinking would have other advantages.