Quote from: molecular on November 08, 2012, 10:31:28 PM

Quote from: mobodick on November 08, 2012, 09:37:25 PM

Quote from: molecular on November 08, 2012, 09:15:16 PM

Quote from: myrkul on November 08, 2012, 08:45:58 PM

Quote from: mobodick on November 08, 2012, 08:40:16 PM

But i think that the bigger this consumption problem becomes the more people will be willing to change.
The change just won't be RBE but something that more naturally fits our way of living and won't have the same dramatic consequences that a change to RBE would have.

Market economy. Once people start paying the REAL price of things, that should take care of it.

yes, exactly. and sound money.

Nonsense.
The market will only care about efficiently describing the relation between supply and demand.
It doesn't care about the human situation or that the resources are running out. The process of the market will just continue to work untill demand is satisfied. And as i said above, it is the demand that needs the change. Going through the market is starting at the end and hoping the beginning will catch up.
You would first need sufficient ammounts of people in the market that want to change before the market will provide for this change.
[...]
We need to change our own behaviour if we want change.

The market doesn't "describe" the relation between supply and demand, it brings the two together and finds a price.

It does "care" about the resources running out in the sense that it sends a "price signal" as resources become harder to extract. The higher price has at least 2 positive effects: It decreases demand and it triggers investment into looking for other solutions.

I agree that it's the demand that has to change. I've come to the view though that the easiest way to do this is to have the consumer pay a higher price, the "REAL price" as myrkul said, the one determined by a market that uses unprintable money. A free market economy will make efficient use of the resources. It will also look into the future and foresee resources being used up and take action (for profit, of course).

I'm not saying all is great as it is, in fact I'm saying we don't currently have a free market: all the fiat printing is effecting malinvestments and pushes consumerism. It pumps money into conserving existing structures that should long be gone. The "continual growth paradigm" has to fall. The simple solution here is sound money.

Introducing sound money seems to me much easier than somehow "providing sufficient amounts of people that want to change".

and that's exactly why i don't think it will work.
The market can be efficient at connecting a seller to a buyer but it doesn't care about humans.
The humans participating need to care about that. That is the only way the market will ever care.

I'm sure the market will find a balance, just not sure it will be a balance that makes us consume less. Unless the whole process crashes.
It realy is a sort of a runaway train thingy at the moment and for humanity to be safe we need to step it down over generations. At least, that's how i see it.