Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on December 15, 2015, 11:16:10 PM

Quote from: BADecker on December 15, 2015, 11:10:10 PM

Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on December 15, 2015, 09:31:00 PM

Quote from: BADecker on December 15, 2015, 04:38:31 PM

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I am glad you replied to sorryforthat the way you did. Personally I believe that the Bible clearly speaks about a real Heaven and Hell existing outside of this earthly life. Our life here, since the fall into sin, is more like the Purgatory of the Roman Catholic Church.

The speaking in the Revelation about the New Heavens and the New Earth is a clearer explanation of Heaven. It is a new universe that has different physical laws than this one - a different physics and science.

The Lake of Fire in the Revelation is a smelting pot that melts the eternal soul down into its component parts so that God gets His energy back. Since the soul is eternal, the tearing down of the soul is eternal as well. God can wait for eternity to be over, because He is outside, even, of eternity, although He is eternal at the same time.

I don't agree. We don't have eternal life from the beginning, people won't be burning in hell forever and ever. We are given eternal life through Jesus, or why else would it say Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Our eternal life is a gift, it is not for everyone, but only for those who choose to accept it. The wages of sin are death, not burning forever and ever.

At the beginning there was no death. Death came with sin. Restoration to eternal life through Jesus' work on the cross is the free gift of God to all who will accept it. However, even the ability to accept has been opened up by Jesus' work on the cross.

Evidence of torment forever from Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 20:15:

Quote

10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

...

15 If anyones name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

However, I think that if we looked for it we could find other places that say more directly that the torment of those who are unsaved will be lasting forever... such as Matthew 25:31-46.

Sodom and Gomorrah was said to burn forever and ever, and it's not burning.

Malachi 4:3 "You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing," says the LORD of hosts.

How can they be ashes if they are burning forever?

Revelation 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The lake of fire will be done away with, and there will be a new heaven, and new earth, and there will be no more pain. He is not going to torture people forever, they will be ashes under our feet.

The eternal bit is because they will be gone forever, not burning forever.

Hell - the Truth about Hell

There is a lot of symbolism. Malachi is before the resurrection, before the lake of fire.

The thing called "eternity" is tied to this universe in its present form. It is not tied to the new universe in its present "eternity" form.

The lake of fire will be the dissolution of the current universe, and will probably even include the suffering and death of Jesus. After all, Jesus took the punishment for the sins of the whole world. While the destruction of and through the lake of fire will take forever in our understanding in this universe, in the understanding of the new universe it will not even be thought about.