Quote from: onlinn on January 14, 2016, 09:02:09 AM

Well, You are the exception when you state: " I am a Christian but have no problem with people who are gay,atheist, or from a different religion."

If you are talking to me, I don't recall stating this. Do you have the quote reference location?

Do gays, atheists and people of false religions have lives at all? Of course they do. I didn't make them live. God made them live... even though they will all die sometime. God has not placed me or most Christians into a position of authority to judge when to put the ungodly and unrighteous to death, or even punish them.

Quote from: onlinn on January 14, 2016, 09:02:09 AM

I would gather from this statement -- as opposed to the stand of many Christians -- that you would allow an atheist to hold public office -- NOT allowed in many areas of the country, and agree that gays TOO have the civil right to marriage.

God has not placed me into a position of power and authority so that I can determine any of this. It doesn't mean that I don't recognize sin, or that I love the evil that is going on.

Quote from: onlinn on January 14, 2016, 09:02:09 AM

Too often, some "religious believers" DO have such trouble with opposing beliefs. And when they characterize people with different beliefs, (or no religious belief) as sinners and immoral, and worse not even capable of living a moral life, then many people, including atheist, start to object.

Too often these "religious believers" practice unjust discrimination toward people who believe differently.

In some fanatical cases it even escalates into violence.

This is at least partially true. However, God uses everything to get the things that He wants done, done.

When somewhat ignorant Christians physically fight peaceful but more ignorant non-Christians, such Christians are probably wrong in doing this. But God uses it to teach His people, and to put down rebellion against God in the ungodly. Only God and a few wise people understand what is going on in the background.

Quote from: onlinn on January 14, 2016, 09:02:09 AM

You ask about RESPECT? I am sorry. I CAN NOT respect anyone who because of their irrational and inherently contradictory "beliefs" bring unjust suffering and pain into this world. When "believers" teach their children to ignore logic and reason in favor of bigotry and blind faith, then this is destructive to society.

Too often the phrase "I love the sinner but hate the sin" leads to hatred of the supposed sinner. Some Christians (and others of other faiths) may STATE that they love their fellow man, but their ACTIONS prove otherwise.

When bigoted "believers" start spending millions to pass hate legislation and to deny segments of our society their JUST civil rights in the name of their "religion" THEN sorry I simply can NOT respect their beliefs.

And they are correct, too often in the past, religion HAS led to unjust war, persecutions, violence, and such" just read some history. When religious fanatics obtain secular power, all manner of injustice and horrific persecutions Proceed. Just look at the history of the Catholic Church in the Middle ages.

It is BECAUSE many people of 'religious belief" CAN NOT in fact respect the differing beliefs of others which causes the problem.

And even when egregious actions do not take place, just by the fact that so many "religious people" condemn and judge others around them, and make every effort to alienate from family, government, and church, and other societal institutions, those who "believe differently" this itself brings too much unnecessary pain and suffering to innocent people.

Just read some of the replies on this forum concerning abortion, gay rights, gay marriage, and even something as inflammatory as evolution, and you will see my point.

A Christian - a person who believes in Jesus salvation - is not all knowing. Just because he is a Christian doesn't mean he has all wisdom and understanding, and always uses the best judgement. However, a Christian has the most important piece of knowledge and understanding that exists. He has salvation to everlasting life with God.

Did I ask about respect? ALL people fit into the cast of irrational in their understandings and beliefs. Respect the person for the fact that he is a person. Don't respect his knowledge and understanding if you think they are wrong. Why? Because you are not any better, and are "condemning" yourself to a life of self-disrespect when you disrespect others rather than their beliefs.

Quote from: onlinn on January 14, 2016, 09:02:09 AM

When a child is taught to ignore scientific evidence, to ignore logic, to ignore reason, and make their moral judgments based on ignorance and bigotry and moral codes which no reasonable person can follow, and on obviously UNTRUE statements (or untrue interpretations of statements) found in writings 2000 years old, this is itself seen by many (including atheists) as IMMORAL and damaging to the very children they are raising.

This is true. As an example, the science of passing an electric current through water that is not distilled to produce separated oxygen and hydrogen gasses, is factual science. Science that says that the Big Bang happened is not factual science (although to the atheist it might be).

When a person believes that something that has not been determined to be fact, is indeed fact (like many people believe about the Big Bang and much other science theory), have they not formed a religion for themselves in certain ways? In addition, when I show that God exists scientifically, by factual laws of science, and nobody can refute it even though they talk about attempted refutations, and even they talk like it has been refuted, who has the irrational religion?

Quote from: onlinn on January 14, 2016, 09:02:09 AM

Bad psychology is bad theology. Yet many people of religious belief totally ignore the consequences of their beliefs and the forcing of these beliefs on too many vulnerable children.

For just one small example, the suicide rate in this country of gay teens is not 4 to 10 times that of non-gay teens because of nothing. Violence towards gays did not increase 4 fold in CA after the fighting over Prop 8 for nothing. People's beliefs have consequences, and when these consequences bring harm to innocent people, then sorry I can NOt respect those beliefs.

And you obviously do not know your 10 commandments. Please explain which one speaks of do not hate your fellow man? And this brings in an important issue. NO ONE today, NO ONE follows the 10 commandments as they were understood by the Hebrew when they were FIRST written. MORAL CODE changes!

I guess that you are not talking to me. So, I apologize if I act like you are.

Moral code does not change. Why not? People do not change.

While we are a weaker people than the people who lived at the time the Ten Commandments were written, we are not different. Look at the statues and engravings from that time. People back then had heads, arms and legs, hands and feet, and torsos, just like they do today. The workings of their minds and spirits have not changed, either.

Quote from: onlinn on January 14, 2016, 09:02:09 AM

People today do NOT follow the Bible -- and for this we should be VERY thankful. But to claim that the Bible is an inerrant source for moral code today IS A LARGE PART OF THE PROBLEM! First of all, nothing could be further from the truth. But on the other hand, most people FIRST formulate their beliefs, and THEN use the Bible to validate them.

Actually, the reason for problems in life is that people do NOT follow the Bible.

Uri Harel, a great, late, Jewish rabbi and scholar, has shown that there are only 12 mistakes in the Old Testament. These mistakes are not the kind that change any of the teaching or theme. They are simply mistakes where we don't understand exactly how the Hebrew letters fit together to form what is being said by God.

God is keeping His word pure. He is at the same time showing us that we are imperfect beings, no matter how hard we try to remain perfect.

Quote from: onlinn on January 14, 2016, 09:02:09 AM

PLEASE -- this is WHY atheist so adamantly dislike your religion. STOP formulating moral code based on an ignorant so-called book of revealed truth formulated by ignorant men, when such moral code brings unnecessary pain, harm, and suffering.

There is much of human wisdom written in the Christian scriptures. But to claim that ALL of this scripture is to be used as a conclusive source of moral code is the height of ignorance, irrationality, and limits the pursuit of justice in today's society..

You have a lot to learn when you think that immoral code is going to bring more peace and goodness than moral code.