Quote from: TPTB_need_war on January 22, 2016, 09:13:34 PM

Please note I had to delete the quoted post below, because it attributed generalizethis's comments to me, and I had asked tifozi to correct his quote and he hadn't completed it by the time I made this reply, so I deleted his post. The otherwise unaltered content of his remains quoted below, with the corrected attribution.

Quote from: tifozi on January 22, 2016, 08:39:51 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on January 22, 2016, 10:58:11 AM

I seem to remember that FluffyPony ran down the list of thing Monero wanted achieve marketwise as a complete privacy hub (I'm sure hub is not the word he used), but the point is that private transactions and openalias are parts of a broader design. Judging its marketing based on what's transpired so far is akin to judging Netflix when they were only doing mail order--there's a plan and specific market (those looking for end-to-end privacy solutions), so you are most likely jumping the gun on any pronouncements of failure.

Netflix is a for profit corporation. They are answerable to shareholders of the company. Monero is not a company. There are for profit companies within cryptosphere that need to worry about it. Monero does not. So it's value as you see fit is immaterial. If fluffypony implied bringing awareness about this project and used the word marketing it is his prerogative. Monero is not fluffypony and fluffypony is not Monero. This isn't the fight that you are looking for. I didn't imply failure by any means, I meant to mock superlatives being used by many in these forums about the state of the project.

I was not privy to (not aware of) any of that discussion. That is between you and generalizethis. But I am reasonably clear that fluffypony is the most important developer of Monero and he has been in a leadership role. And you need leadership on the marketing strategy of the open source project. I would suggest you read the canonical source on open source economics:

http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/magic-cauldron/magic-cauldron.html

Quote from: tifozi on January 22, 2016, 08:39:51 PM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on January 22, 2016, 08:14:27 PM

I will need to stop thinking and writing about Monero because I need to work on my own project and its marketing. I know you in the Monero/Aeon community didn't originally ask me to do this, and I am the one who forcefully interjected my opinions about Monero. So thus let me try to wrap up with one more summary of what I have been suggesting upthread.

No need to be diabolical with a large paint brush. I don't judge those who did either, they must have seen merit (or not, it's irrelevant to me)

I am just acknowledging for the public record what transpired and my intentions to reach closure on this discussion asap.

Quote from: tifozi on January 22, 2016, 08:39:51 PM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on January 22, 2016, 08:14:27 PM

It seems to me very likely that fluffypony's market strategy is not well focused on what corporations might want from block chain privacy. I have stated my logic on Zerocash technology upthread and the reasons corporations are IMO more apt to embrace it; whereas, they currently do not embrace public block chains and I've been told that mentioning public block chains is a good way to get ignored by corporations.

And that should be respected. If corporations launch their own coins, or embrace a coin launched by other corporations, it is again their pejorative. I do not have to follow them and I will not. My valuation of Monero remains unchanged because it is not an investment vehicle.

With this comment, I can see you are not agreeing that corporations (businesses) are the only viable market for block chain privacy.

Even if you argue that the general public will one day want privacy (not illegal anonymity!) on their financial transactions (which btw I think will be the case), then you will still find that Zerocash is the superior solution because its performance is provable (i.e. reasonably estimated with sufficient safety margins) because it is End-to-End principled (and this can't be done for Cryptonote/RingCT because of the meta-data problem). And I will continue to suggest that there won't be this mass market for private block chains until crypto currency is widely adopted. So you will never be able to address this market with Monero's current marketing strategy and technology, because:

1. Monero will never implement the block chain scaling technology and marketing strategy that can successfully reach the masses (for one reason because you all are clueless about this and have no focus on this). And who ever does, will simply adopt the best anonymity block chain technology and Monero ends up abandoned. The mass market coin will have more funds and more momentum.

2. Zerocash will pursue corporations and leave you behind on the viable near-term markets and also end up with the best anonymity technology.

In short, you all are in speculator delusion mode. You need to shift to thinking clearly about marketing strategy and get your heads out of the sand.

Quote from: tifozi on January 22, 2016, 08:39:51 PM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on January 22, 2016, 08:14:27 PM

I believe a privacy focused block chain should not be in any discussions whatsoever on a daily basis in a speculation forum. What corporations want to be associated with that! Not to mention how it influences what the lead developers think about and are focused on on a daily basis. I see your lead developer smooth of Aeon in these forums constantly talking about exchange market movements. Corporations would want him to be buried away in a lab accomplishing technology quietly and appearing in public to make announcements of milestones and broad technological goals and achievements.

A systemic hyperbole that doesn't need to be indulged in.

Here is more evidence for readers that Monero's community will remain adrift at sea because it is being dominated by clueless speculators. Sorry to criticize you tifozi, but you all are braindead when it comes to marketing analysis and understanding positioning and open source economics. I've tried to explain it to you all and you are boastful about your ignorance of these matters.

Quote from: tifozi on January 22, 2016, 08:39:51 PM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on January 22, 2016, 08:14:27 PM

In other words, if you want to be a long-term focused open source project, then you need to be aligned with the interests of long-term oriented corporations as Linux is. And then you need to produce the best technology for them, e.g. probably Zerocash based (contingent on your careful study).

A "public" fork of zcash is acceptable although still inferior in design and achievement of the movement already started with Monero.

Factually incorrect. The technical and marketing strategy detailed discussion is upthread. I will not rehash it again. Mark my words everyone. Watch and see that I am correct again in the future. As I was when everyone called me crazy back in 2013 for predicting what happened to Bitcoin now.

Quote from: tifozi on January 22, 2016, 08:39:51 PM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on January 22, 2016, 08:14:27 PM

Anonymity for the masses is nonsensical. I had to finally come to that realization myself. Corporations have a real business need to pay for privacy and public block chains promise more interoption and network effects than private databases. Also public block chains means that corporations don't fail when their partner corporation fails. In other words, just like the concept of open source in general, public block chains remove proprietary lockin failure modes. But corporations will not use public block chains if the privacy is not 100% certain. Period.

An assumption that this is being catered towards corporations and it is not. It doesn't imply exclusion either.

See my detailed elucidation/enumeration above.

Quote from: tifozi on January 22, 2016, 08:39:51 PM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on January 22, 2016, 08:14:27 PM

Sorry to say it probably means mostly restarting from scratch on a new code base. And it means broadening your perspective away from just crypto currency and including distributed databases and the economics thereof. For example in IoT, a parking meter needs to be paid.

Always looking for broadening, sharpening and enhancing the code base. I know the address to the github.

That is a lame excuse for ignoring what has been explained to you.

There are more than 1 million open source projects on the internet. You have to figure out a strategy that compels serious parties to join your movement. I have explained your economic options, but you won't listen.

Quote from: tifozi on January 22, 2016, 08:39:51 PM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on January 22, 2016, 08:14:27 PM

It will require a deep rethink away from the delusion that you can build an anonymous coin for general use and you will all get rich over the long-term by buying low and selling high in a speculator market. I have explained upthread why an anonymous coin for general use makes no technological sense and has no markets. In short, the few individuals that would rely on it, would be risking jail time. Corporations don't risk jail time for using privacy on their data (especially if there is a viewkey when needed for regulatory oversight).

That is my gift to your community. Ignore it at your peril.

Sure.

Mark my words. Monero's community will eat them in a couple of years at most.

Don't give them any more gifts TP, they don't deserve anything. Just turn your back on them and their broken coin. Why bother trying to educate the wilfully ignorant?