Quote from: TPTB_need_war on February 04, 2016, 10:36:41 AM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on February 04, 2016, 04:58:02 AM

Thanks... it is hard to know what TPTB has been talking about since he just says "read my thread". You summed it up nicely... I've been wondering what he has been talking about and too lazy/busy to read his long threads. Roll Eyes

I am sure governments and/or government contractors and/or corporations are probably scraping metadata from Bitcoin (and possibly other cryptocurrencies.) I haven't done a ton of research on the subject like you guys, but I tend to agree with you that if you wanted to be as private/anonymous as possible, you would still need to try and obscure your metadata even while using Zcash. If the view key is ever compromised then so is your privacy, and it would also be necessary if they do a reset. I don't think this will be a huge issue for corporations though, because really we are talking about IP (or possibly computer hardware/software (or OS) versions) leaks... which they wouldn't really be too worried about I don't think. They are more worried about financial privacy than anonymity, so that their competition is kept in the dark.

If it is true that, with the Zcash view key, someone can see all transactions that ever occurred on that account, then I see this as a major blow to the functionality of Zcash. Perhaps there is still space for a technology like Monero with per-transaction view keys (and hopefully Monero will be combined with some type of CT implementation soon.) I can't imagine corporations wanting to open their books to anyone and everyone that they need to prove to that any certain transaction(s) occurred. I am still confused if the Zcash view key reveals all transactions for any certain account, or if can be done on a transaction-by-transaction basis.

I don't intend this to be condescending, but you just can't formulate logic based on incorrect assumptions of the technology and also incorrect assessment of the realistically achievable goals. If you don't have the time for deep study (because you are a full-time university student), then it will be difficult for you write opinions that always make sense. Afaics, all the above doesn't make sense, because of several different facts that you haven't yet incorporated into your thought process. For one, afair there isn't any Zcash viewkey (at least not yet although I have asked them about this and how they can appease the government and have auditing capabilities without a viewkey). Also no anonymity technology can protect you from the government, because the governments can force you to provide the viewkey and/or censor your transaction by employing a 51% attack the coin (i.e. control over the longest chain) numerous ways (e.g. charge the cost to the electricity to the collective and/or regulate the mining farms). Even those in the past who rebutted me with, "but the miners can be in every country and the USA can't control every country", have had to eat their words now that we've shown that China has monopolized mining and is even lying about their justification for 51% attacking Bitcoin. I was warning about Tragedy of the Commons centralization of control in 2013 and everyone said I was loony[1] and now even Germany is instituting the BigT lie to implement capital controls[2] (why do you think Merkel and the Troika allowed 1.1 million muslims to invade Germany! it was to make the people feel unsafe!). We the masses will never be able to have privacy from the government (from our society) until we all decide that priority is the most important and force our will on the government. That isn't going to happen for the masses until after they suffer through some totalitarianism in the 2017 - 2032 timeframe. Some of the masses are aware enough to perhaps not like NSA snooping (yet some support it as they support the military for their safety, nationalistic pride, and dominance of the USA as the reserve currency), but it isn't the most important priority that they are willing to fight for with all their effort and zeal. The Chinese (not all perhaps but enough do) actually support the single party Communist system, because afaik they think that people need to be disciplined and they think this provides a more harmonious society.

[1]	Transactions Withholding Attack Spiraling Transaction Fees destruction of Bitcoin
[2]	Quote from: trollercoaster on February 04, 2016, 03:04:31 AM http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_GERMANY_CASH_LIMIT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-02-03-06-58-46

I don't intend this to be condescending, but you just can't formulate logic based on incorrect assumptions of the technology. For instance, your incorrect assumption there is no viewkey in Zcash invalidates an entire paragraph of your retort, if you wold have separated your diatribe into paragraphs that is. Perhaps you should spend more time researching (or understanding) something you claim to be an expert on.

Furthermore, it is disgusting how willing you are to lick the tyrannical boots of governments everywhere. Luckily, not everyone thinks like that. Otherwise all of the issues around the world, or more specifically human rights issues, would never be resolved. All persons should have a right to maintaining their privacy and anonymity without government interference. Whether it be finance, communication, personal, where you go, or what you do, everyone deserves privacy and anonymity if they so choose. Decentralized and anonymity technologies can, are and will be used to force governments' hands into repealing oppressive laws and regulations.

The easy way out is to admit defeat, so I don't blame you, but nothing is impossible. Governments have had trouble shutting down truly decentralized technologies like Bittorrent. So what if most (or all) cryptocurrencies are not truly decentralized, they are a step in the right direction and their distributed nature makes them much harder to shut down than any centralized web site or service.

Not only governments, but Corporations will also eventually be greatly effected by decentralized and anonymity technologies. You cannot enforce patents or trademarks against a decentralized network. This will even the playing field for low and middle class citizens of the world to compete against Corporations. It will create a true free market of businesses, providing more choices and competition, which in turn results in better services and products for everyone. I could honestly go on and on about all of the many ways different technologies, industries, and governments will be effected. I think decentralized, anonymity, and blockchain technologies will change the world.