Quote from: Cryptorials on February 22, 2016, 12:31:43 PM

Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 12:13:05 AM

Some examples:

They say in Terms and Conditions:

The Company, which is solely responsible for conducting the Presale, will use the proceeds of the Presale to acquire NeuCoin Tokens from the NeuCoin Foundations immediately after the the NeuCoin Tokens are initially created and the NeuCoin System is made publicly available (the Public Release), expected to occur in the summer of 2015. The Company is not authorized to use the proceeds of the Presale for any other purpose. All the BTC raised in the presale will be kept in a publicly visible multisig Bitcoin address which will be published on www.neucoin.org. Private keys will be held by several members of the NeuCoin Project Team along with a representative of the Company so that the Company will not be able to transfer funds from the multisig address without the consent of the NeuCoin Project Team members. Immediately after acquiring NeuCoin Tokens from the NeuCoin Foundations, Company will distribute them to the Purchasers. If the Public Release of the NeuCoin System has not occurred by September 30, 2015 (the Release Deadline), the Company will refund all Purchasers their entire purchase amounts as described below. The Company will be liquidated shortly after either distributing NeuCoin Tokens or refunds to all Purchasers.

http://www.neucoin.org/en/terms_and_conditions

Did that happen? This is the address: https://blockchain.info/address/3MrNuksZ1VePU3dGiSQFiouWerJUJgDkfH

WTF? Yes it happened. This is not a promise to tell you exactly what they will do with every satoshi in their possession for ever more, it is an explanation of how the presale worked.

The thing is that it's not even possible to verify what they do with the money! The company proceeds the presale and than they are not authorized to use proceeds of this presale for any other purpose than to buy Neucoin from three Neucoin-foundations on the isle of man - and then they want to distribute it (Neucoin). If there is no way to control that it is as if they say: Give me Bitcoin and I will use that Bitcoin to buy Neucoin from myself which I plan to sell for more Bitcoin. In fact nobody has a clue who is doing what in this game or you just forgot my question who holds the private key? And does it look like as if the ICO-Bitcoin are used for the Development? I mean it's obvious that they paid for press and for funny "price-analyses" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944933.msg13350236#msg13350236 , but it doesn't seem as if they would value the real development side very high or even pay for it. The basic tech is not stable and it's not what they have promised it would be! It's all about selling "something" to naive folks and that's why it's all about the price and that's also the reason why they switch to full PoS - what is also not in line with what was said before. And again: You don't know who exactly is accountable for what the foundations do or the "company" or the ICO-Bitcoin! All the nice talking of non-profit-foundations and company sounds so reputable right? In combination with all the big names but nobody seems to care about the project or am I wrong? Where are they?

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 12:13:05 AM

Transparency and Governance

NeuCoin will be open, accountable and ultimately controlled by coin holders. NeuCoins core code development, user growth programs, and projects to increase utility will be supported by three non-profit foundations based in Isle of Man: the Code, Growth and Utility foundations. All foundations are ultimately controlled by NeuCoin holders (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote), who have the power to hire, fire and set compensation for the foundations Council Members, and have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters. This structure makes NeuCoin more decentralized and accountable than Bitcoin, Ripple or Stellar, let alone most of the anonymous alt coins out there.
http://www.neucoin.org/en/terms_and_conditions

Did that happen? Would you say the foundations are controlled by the Neucoin-Holders? Was there a voting? Coin-Holders "have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters". Would you say that's true?

This is from the strategic plan, I presume? This was clearly explained to be something that would happen after a sufficient number of coins had been distributed. There was never any intention that this should have happened by now, you've just made that up.

Yes, you're right. My fault. But the problem stays the same: With the money they've got from the community they are free to do whatever they want to and nobody even knows WHO exactly is accountable. But about all the technical issues and that they were never able to really distribute how it was planned you just say: "Poor execution is no scam"? Those growth foundation should have the ICO-Bitcoin and they should use those Bitcoin for the best of Neucoin if it's not a scam. That's the promise. And sure I can't know that they use it for other purposes but it's obviously that there are constant transactions from the ICO-address and it's obvious at the same time that they are not able to handle the tech or the distribution and that nearly nothing is like they've said it would be.

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 12:13:05 AM

Or the funny fact that they did not, like promised, release a Block-Explorer right from the start! Without the unofficial one nobody would have known about the fact that >99% of all coins were in the Top 100! And that's weird because they said that there were >1000 pre-sale-Investors. But more than just 3 billion Coins in the top 100??

This is such a minor issue that is being blown up beyond all proportion. Sometimes there are delays with some things in a software project. Its not a big deal because a) there was a block explorer at launch (the unofficial one) b) there was an official block explorer soon after launch and c) you're assertion that without it nobody would know what the initial distribution was is absurd, because even a cursory look at the most basic explanation would have told you what the distribution was going to be, and it exactly followed that plan.

Oh sure, the unofficial was there a few days after launch so they held their promise? That's kind of funny. But there is still no explanation why >99% of all coins were in the top100 and that for a long time!. How is that possible with >1000 people who bought into the presale?

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Yes they acted honestly, no they did not lie.

Sure. ;-)

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They certainly have not been open to discussion, but that is because it would have taken several people working full-time just to answer all the FUD from trolls who don't listen when things are explained to them anyway, making any discussion an exercise in futility.

One question: Is Neucoin what you believed it would be when you bought it? Don't you believe it would have been better to read this thread? Because you can say whatever you want, that they acted honest and that we here are Fudders and Trolls - but under the line we were right. What I said in many posts and with a lot of calculations about the economical side of neucoin turned out to be true and my predictions were not like betting. It was obvious. And if that was obvious for a little light like me, it should have been obvious for professionals like those who are behind Neucoin, right? But they planned it like this! Or maybe they are just not professionals? Maybe they just did everything to give the impression of a professional and reputable project? Because if yes, than you obviously did not buy what you believed to buy. And if yes, you did that because you believed them. If that's what you call "honest" and just "poor execution but not a scam"... okay. But they have your money and you don't even know who is accountable and what they do with that.