Quote from: Cryptorials on February 22, 2016, 05:13:26 PM

Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

The thing is that it's not even possible to verify what they do with the money!

Why the hell should it be? Why do you think they need to justify every single expense to a random forum troll like you? You really need to learn your place in the world.

It's not about me. They owe me nothing, I absolutely agree! I did not invest! ;-) But you and some others bought into it because you and some others believed in what they say. Now they have your Bitcoin and you are in loss. Maybe you should have those questions or don't you care about that?

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

The company proceeds the presale and than they are not authorized to use proceeds of this presale for any other purpose than to buy Neucoin from three Neucoin-foundations on the isle of man - and then they want to distribute it (Neucoin). If there is no way to control that it is as if they say: Give me Bitcoin and I will use that Bitcoin to buy Neucoin from myself which I plan to sell for more Bitcoin. In fact nobody has a clue who is doing what in this game

On the contrary, you know exactly what they are doing because its explained in the t&c you are quoting from. You're supposed to read the t&c before you buy, not buy and then bitch about the fact that your own delusional fantasies of what you thought Neucoin was going to be is different from the actual facts that were explained well in advance if you'd bothered to read them.

Again, I did not buy. I never trusted them. But if you know what they do with the money because you say it's all clear: Please, share your knowledge!

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

or you just forgot my question who holds the private key?

I think you should really look up what a 'multi-sig address' is before you comment any further on this.

My fault that my english is not very good, but you know what I want to say. You don't know who is accountable, right?

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

And does it look like as if the ICO-Bitcoin are used for the Development? I mean it's obvious that they paid for press and for funny "price-analyses"

In the next paragraph you seem to be complaining that they aren't using the money for 'the good of neucoin' or some such ill-defined term, but here you are complaining that they are using it for PR. You can't eat your cake and still have it too.

That's not really PR. That's bullshit. It's obviously important to introduce a new way of calculation for NEU prices which is pathetic. And even if it would be good PR, PR is not enough when the whole project goes to shit and everybody can see that - and not just because of the price!

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

but it doesn't seem as if they would value the real development side very high or even pay for it. The basic tech is not stable and it's not what they have promised it would be!

It is stable, it is what they said it would be. There was a temporary issue as they made a fork recently. I don't see how its a big deal.

We obviously have different definitions of the word stable. But I'm glad for you if Neucoin is exactly what you believed it should be.

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

It's all about selling "something" to naive folks and that's why it's all about the price and that's also the reason why they switch to full PoS - what is also not in line with what was said before.

Firstly, they made a change yes. Would you expect them to just launch it then bugger off and not respond to current conditions? You accuse them of never doing anything, and then accuse them of doing something. You can't eat your cake and have it too.

The problem is the greed-design. They can do whatever they want but this project has no chance and they know that. They don't want the sellpressure from mining, so they switch to full PoS and that means that they will stake their 98% premine and they have 100% control but without any chance to distribute what they stake.

If you are different opinion please calculate what they stake every day. And then: Please tell me how they will distribute the millions they produce every day, not to mention the billions they hold. Do you really believe that could go like they said it would? Do you see any chance for that... The sellpressure from mining is too much but the millions they produce like dust don't count?

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

And again: You don't know who exactly is accountable for what the foundations do or the "company" or the ICO-Bitcoin! All the nice talking of non-profit-foundations and company sounds so reputable right? In combination with all the big names but nobody seems to care about the project or am I wrong? Where are they?

All of the 'big names' probably got very scared for their reputations and tried to dissociate themselves as soon as the troll army swarmed all over this and tried to destroy the name of everyone involved with lies and insults.

Ah, I understand. Those who told and tell the truth are responsible. That's funny. You can't really believe that.

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

Yes, you're right. My fault. But the problem stays the same: With the money they've got from the community they are free to do whatever they want to and nobody even knows WHO exactly is accountable.

You seem to think you work in their accounts department and they should submit all their expense receipts to you or something. Its just ridiculous.

Again, it's not about me. I didn't give a single satoshi to them. But you should be interested what they do with your money. But, maybe you are not.

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

But about all the technical issues and that they were never able to really distribute how it was planned you just say: "Poor execution is no scam"?

Well that wasn't me that said that actually, but anyway. I don't know of any significant technical issues, but any problems with distribution I would blame on the attack from you and the other trolls scaring people away and destroying any interest in this coin, more than anything else.

No technical issues? Take a look in the official forum and the complaints about issues. One example:
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/3-5-hours-of-transactions-removed-from-the-block-chain/2057

And no, it's not our fault that Neucoin is a failure. It's because of the economic design. No project could distribute new coins for hundreds of Bitcoins everyday. This is what they wanted you to believe:

Neucoin Will Have More Consumers Using It Than Bitcoin within One Year - Founder
http://cointelegraph.com/news/neucoin-will-have-more-consumers-using-it-than-bitcoin-within-one-year-founder

And maybe you believed that. But it's not possible! For no project, at least not for a bullshit-project like Neucoin without any innovation! It would need thousands new buyers everyday to distribute what they produce every day because of the monster-inflation-staking of the monster-premine!

And you can blame us because we told the truth about it. But maybe you should blame the team that came up with such a greed-plan and yourself that you believed in it.

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

Those growth foundation should have the ICO-Bitcoin and they should use those Bitcoin for the best of Neucoin if it's not a scam.

I'm sorry, you've already eaten this cake.

I just tell you what I believe what a legit project should do. But, if you like it to give them your money because you don't need it but they do - than it's a win-win. ;-)

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

That's the promise. And sure I can't know that they use it for other purposes but it's obviously that there are constant transactions from the ICO-address

Why the hell shouldn't there be? You expected them to raise this money and then just throw it in the bin did you?

I expected exactly what happened. That they transact those coins and I never believed it's really from public investors. I believe it's mainly self-buying because they wanted control right from the start. It never was a legit project in my eyes and either way: They don't really care about developing, good tech and innovation.

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

and it's obvious at the same time that they are not able to handle the tech or the distribution and that nearly nothing is like they've said it would be.

Stating that something is obvious doesn't make it true. The main thing that is different from what they said it would be is that they didn't say there would be an army of whiny liars unleashing a months long campaign of hate to destroy neucoin, and then blaming the neucoin team for the low price of the coins afterwards.

I'm not whiny (why should I?) and I did not lie. My posts were mainly about the economical design and it's not possible that I'm wrong with that. If you disagree with that tell me in which scenarios they could distribute the millions they produce every day!

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

Neucoin what you believed it would be when you bought it? Don't you believe it would have been better to read this thread?

It would have been better if nobody had ever read this thread.

Who is whiny? ;-) And no: If this thread wouldn't exist there just would be more unexperienced user who would believe the lies and invest and lose their money, while the team makes money because they planned to sell dust for Bitcoin.

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

Because you can say whatever you want, that they acted honest and that we here are Fudders and Trolls - but under the line we were right. What I said in many posts and with a lot of calculations about the economical side of neucoin turned out to be true and my predictions were not like betting. It was obvious. And if that was obvious for a little light like me, it should have been obvious for professionals like those who are behind Neucoin, right? But they planned it like this! Or maybe they are just not professionals? Maybe they just did everything to give the impression of a professional and reputable project? Because if yes, than you obviously did not buy what you believed to buy. And if yes, you did that because you believed them. If that's what you call "honest" and just "poor execution but not a scam"... okay.

Yes, you and your friends predicted it will not do well, then you did a very good job of making sure that it didn't do well, and your self-fulfilling prophecy therefore started to look true. Well done.

Why did nobody come to rebut us? Don't you think a team should do that as well? I'm highly invested in Factom and just by the way: I mentioned that already in this thread as example for a legit project and that's the chart:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/factom/

And Paul Snow, the "Boss" of Factom is everywhere to rebut FUD. He discussed it on LTB, on reddit, in comments of articles, in this forum, on twitter etc. I did that as well btw. And it's easy: Because you can't win a discussion if you try to FUD a legit project. And nobody won ever a discussion trying to FUD Factom. But Neucoin... they don't come to rebut us because they know they would lose! I would ask them like I ask you: How will it be possible to distribute the Neucoin-Dust? I would ask them to show calculations for scenarios and it would be obvious that the whole plan is bullshit. It was an impossible greed plan and that's why I call it a scam! And that's why they don't want to discuss with us!

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Quote from: tempus on February 22, 2016, 04:16:09 PM

But they have your money and you don't even know who is accountable and what they do with that.

Every time you say the word 'accountable', which you do very often, it really sets my teeth on edge. You are not the big boss of Neucoin, and they are not accountable to you. They are 'accountable' if they breach the T&C, but all your complaints about the t&cs are about the team following them, not breaking them, so no, they are not accountable to you and please stop acting like they have a duty to do everything you want them to do.

I already said: They owe me nothing. But I would have some questions if I would be invested. You don't have those questions and I'm all right with that. But I really believe it's good to tell the truth about this project to avoid that too many others believe their lies.