Quote from: yugo23 on March 01, 2016, 01:57:33 PM

Quote from: BARR_Official on March 01, 2016, 01:51:05 PM

Quote from: cjmoles on March 01, 2016, 08:10:58 AM

It takes the laborer eight hours to create a product for the capitalist. The capitalist then offers that product back to the laborer for twelve labor/hours.

If that was true, the laborer would just "create a product" and sell it to another laborer for 12 labor/hours.
Maybe you've left out some important details?

What you've described makes "laborers" look like complete fools,
obviously in need of your control to save them from their own choices.

The truth is that a free market allows everyone to engage in voluntary exchange.
Whatever deal the laborer makes, he makes it freely because he feels that it is beneficial to himself.

But you don't want the laborer to be able to decide what is best for himself.

And that is what socialism is about:
taking away people's freedom, their power of choice,
and giving all that power to a few people.

Because that's not EXACTLY what's happening with the whole food industry?

No, it's not. And you know it's not.

It's a ridiculous lie to say that people work 8 hours and then owe 12 hours.
No reasonable person can honestly believe that.

For one thing, workers don't buy all the products they make themselves.
So it wouldn't matter even if it did cost 12 hours to buy something that took them 8 hours to make -
unless it's something they absolutely must buy again and again every single day of their lives.
But that would be stupid, not to mention impossible.

The typical reality is something more like this:
- They go to the factory and make things
- They get paid for their work, and they can't find anyone in the world to pay them more
- They don't ever have to buy the things they make, unless they want to
- It's cheaper than what they could have made by themselves, thanks to "the capitalists"
- It only costs the worker 6 hours to buy the product that would cost them 24 hours to make at home
- The only time their money and labor is taken forcibly from them is by the government
- The government takes about 16 hours of their labor each week, you want to increase that
- The workers and the employers both contribute value to the world
- They both respect the other's freedom and help each other fulfill their needs
- Money-grabbing socialists contribute nothing

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Big companies like Walmart corrupt consumers.

You hate freedom, so you don't want people to have the choice to buy what they want.

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Consumers only go here because they're brainwashed as fuck.

Wal-Mart sells mirrors. Look into that.

Consumers only go to Wal-Mart out of a free choice to benefit themselves.

People only argue against that if they're brainwashed.

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Peasants can only sell to Walmart. Walmart decides how much they pay the peasants.

So you're saying Black people are stupid and shouldn't be allowed their own money,
because they're an inferior underclass without the capacity to make their own decisions?

Good luck getting people to agree with that, you racist freedom-hating money-grabber.