Quote from: CoinCube on March 04, 2016, 06:36:31 AM

Quote from: BADecker on March 03, 2016, 04:44:14 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on March 03, 2016, 02:00:39 PM

The concept you are both approaching anon_giraffe from the perspective of reproducing intellectual structures and tvbcof from the idea of social evolution is the that of group selection.

Group selection is a very deep and mostly under-explored area of evolutionary biology. The most intriguing and active thinking that I have seen in this area is that of Charlton. Below is an excerpt of his work.

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General properties of Group Selection and the 'group mind' (in relation to the adaptive production of geniuses)

Selection in this sense suggests that randomness exists.

Random cannot exist in a system where cause and effect exist.

Cause and effect are upheld by Newton's 3rd Law, which is universal to our knowledge, and which has never been found to have any failure in anything.

Random as far as the way people use it, is simply an organized method of guessing, called probability, that people use. They use it because they have such limited ability for determining the abundant, detailed activities of cause and effect.

Quantum Mechanics is a complex form of complex probability that is used to guess more complex things.

QM doesn't prove anything.

The idea of "selection" suggests that there is intelligence doing the selecting.

Cool

BADecker I agree with the majority of your statement above. However, I disagree with the two sentences underlined.

Group selection does not require randomness. The existence of infinite possibility and a mechanism to allow examination of possibility is sufficient. Thus group selection is not necessarily incompatible with an entirely cause and effect driven view of the universe.

Except for one major thing. Reality in something has only one thing. There are not two or more realities. That kind of thinking is theory.

There is no selection, group or otherwise. So-called selection in reality has been programmed to exist the way it does by countless cause and effect reaction operations.

The idea of the existence of infinite possibilities has to do with our inability to know about something, and our methods for finding out about it. This is where QM comes in. QM is not reality. It is probability in our search for what the reality is. There is only one reality, but there are infinite possibilities if we don't know what the one reality is. QM examines the possibilities in a probability fashion.

Quote from: CoinCube on March 04, 2016, 06:36:31 AM

Quantum Mechanics is not simple a mechanism for guessing things. It offers us a deep insight that the world is not as it appears to our senses. It is Quantum Mechanics that leads us to the conclusion that we may actually be living in a Holographic Universe. The idea the the the world around us indeed the entire universe is simply the projection of a deeper reality.

QM can be a complex method for guessing things. QM can be used to determine things that are entirely opposite. All QM determined things must be proven by some other method before being known to be reality. The only time this might not be true would be if someone decided to use QM to prove a law already known to exist. Use QM to verify Newton's 3rd Law.

Quote from: CoinCube on March 04, 2016, 06:36:31 AM

In his essay The Universe Anonymint draws our attention to the the holographic principle. Specifically the fascinating notion that when you combine the the holographic principle with the thermodynamic quantities of heat and mechanical work, it is its relatively straightforward to derive Newtons classical equation of gravity

These ideas are difficult to grasp and at this stage they remain theoretical physics. However, there are a growing number of scientist who are taking them very seriously.

Below is a great introductory video on the topic. I recommend it for you BADecker to give you a appreciation of quantum mechanics. More importantly I recommend it to anyone who has difficulty accepting the possibility of a deeper fundamental truth and reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMBt_yfGKpU

Thank you for the video offer. Right now I am not into learning the deeper points of how to use QM. But, the thing that most people don't realize is, that everybody is using a simple version of QM in their daily living all the time. It is a mental thing, and has to do with how the brain operates... because nobody knows for a fact what will happen in the next minute (second). If people did, there wouldn't be any car accidents, and nobody would get on a plane that was going to crash.

As you said, they are theory. Anyone who wants to test out the validity of any theory should seriously use QM to formulate the exact opposite of the theory. QM will provide this opposite. The first effect will be to show which "thing," the theory or its anti-theory has the better odds. But then you can use QM to formulate the theory and its anti-thory in a different way that will change the odds.

Usually, understanding a theory is difficult enough. So, who wants to go off and try to think out an anti-theory to disprove the theory? So it is that science is doing itself a big disfavor.

Cool