Quote from: Lauda on March 04, 2016, 11:06:10 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 04, 2016, 10:47:44 AM

Honestly, I don't care about LN since I will never use it and I'm pretty sure it will only turn out to be a ripple 2.

LN is not centralized. You're starting with false information again.

Take it like you want. Ripple started with wanting to be decentralized at some point. LN will be from the start. But that is not the point. The point is using another system than your beloved bitcoin.

It simply will not work out the way the devs think. And forcing them by showing them how "notworking" bitcoin is will turn against them. People would cry out louder to fix the network and it doesn't matter what we think, they would accept the bitcoin solution fixing it. (No, I don't want to discuss that we can push "Bitcoin" around in LN.)

Quote from: Lauda on March 04, 2016, 11:06:10 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 04, 2016, 10:47:44 AM

Oh right. Now I should shut up because I don't have a degree in economics or something like that? Well, I would prefer to remain on the factual level instead on a personal one.

Engineering. If you don't have a degree/relevant knowledge then I have no idea why you're trying to tell the engineers how to do their job. This has nothing to do with a personal level.

I'm a coder myself with years of experience though I don't like coding in C and similar languages. I studied but stopped when I worked what I would have worked after studying anyway.

And it is no question of going around claiming that they are right only because they have a master in informatics or something. Facts can be stated and surely they stated all facts that support their position. Still, what was given is mostly guesswork, no facts. It can't be guessed perfectly fine what will happen in 5 years with blocksize raisings. There still will be technical development and hardware advancing.

And trying to fix a network by telling the users to stop using it and using another network is something that never worked. Bitcoiners will be bitcoiners and want to stay as bitcoiners.

Quote from: Lauda on March 04, 2016, 11:06:10 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 04, 2016, 10:47:44 AM

Surely we have to be prepared for the worst case scenario. That's why I will not support LN. Since it will turn out in the worst case scenario that bitcoin is unuseable for normal usage and LN will turn out to be some kind of bank.
Completely different of everything we bitcoiner wanted bitcoin to be in the last 5 years I'm here.

Completely false. Bitcoin will not be adopted on a global level (it can't) without solutions such as the LN (which is not comparable to a bank).

So another guesswork for the future. And yes, LN contains the risk of being like a bank at one point. When the bitcoin fees will be so high that no normal user can use it reasonable then what will happen? People will be told to stop buying bitcoins at all and buy and trade them directly and only on the lightning network. Who will use bitcoin then? Those that offer these services and those that still can pay the bitcoin fees. Which will be big companies and exchanges, which are some kind of bank. Well... not exactly the freedom satoshi had in mind.

Quote from: Lauda on March 04, 2016, 11:06:10 AM

One more post like this and I'm putting you back on my ignore list. You're wasting my time with nonsense. I've told you all of this at least once.

As long as you only ignore and don't ban me, maybe that would be better. I'm tired of you pushing around the same accusations over and over by mostly pointing out proofs, to support your view, that are guesswork. Or finding a tiny bit of unrelated thing to try to go against my words... even though that thing does not really have anything to do with what I wrote.