Quote from: TPTB_need_war on March 07, 2016, 09:33:02 AM

Quote from: hv_ on March 07, 2016, 07:44:47 AM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on March 07, 2016, 03:31:20 AM

More reasons Ethereum can't scale decentralized:

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 06, 2016, 10:17:26 PM

Check https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/492fse/serenity_poc2_ethereum_blog/d0okwaw and https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/492fse/serenity_poc2_ethereum_blog/d0oik7j, please. Are those centralization concerns legit? I suspect that any real criticism will be shadowbanned on sites controlled by Ethereum marketing team, so I'm asking here.

Truth is started to come out...

Also the Dapps look mostly like nonsense or they don't need Turing complete scripts:

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on March 06, 2016, 06:10:19 PM

Quote from: noobtrader on March 06, 2016, 05:52:07 PM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on March 06, 2016, 05:40:35 PM

Quote from: noobtrader on March 06, 2016, 05:32:32 PM

WOW....

all these prediction would be fit perfectly in augur... LOL

Except that augur is nonsense, because the market is not an accurate prediction paradigm. The market speaks, but after the fact.

I could sell you idiots turds wrapped in a Snicker's bar wrapper and you'd buy it, take it home proudly, and put in your ref for safe storage without ever opening to verify it. Then later when your frig smells like shit, you go searching for some poo and never open the Snicker.

augur more like decentralized betting market, they want us to bet on everything. if you look at it that way, it actually make sense.

True. But we can already do that. What augur is trying to do is figure out how to record of the outcomes decentralized. But the problem is that violates the Nash equilibrium (since users have game theories to profit on reporting different outcomes). I don't expect Augur to function decentralized and expect it to diverge into chaotic disorder unless they centralize control of the recording of the outcomes (in which case they've accomplished nothing). Bitshares is centralized which enables using a price feed for the BitUSD algorithm.

There is a lot of bullshit floating around in this forum.

I'd estimate, that 'working' DAPPs can only be nichy ones w/o any real risk exposure. Similar to bitcoin early bootstrapping with Silkroad you can start with:

Gaming, Betting, Cheating, Porn...

I need to spend more time thinking about it in detail. Devil is in the details.

Let's consider the example of the use of a smart contract by Slock.it to validate availability of and then escrow funds during an electric charging service. The escrow is necessary because the charging time is not an instantaneous transfer of a good for payment

https://blog.slock.it/partnering-with-rwe-to-explore-the-future-of-the-energy-sector-1cc89b9993e6
http://www.coindesk.com/german-utility-company-turns-to-blockchain-amid-shifting-energy-landscape/

This does not benefit from a smart contract for an analogous reason as to why Augur and BitUSD are not secure without centralization of the prediction outcome or price feed respectively. That is that a decentralized block chain can not determine whether the charging completed successfully.

The only verification of the success of the charging can be either a) mutual agreement of the service provider and the client, or b) a trusted third party escrow agent. In either case, we don't need smart contracts to do this, as we can do it with multi-sig transactions on Bitcoin.

This generative essence flaw that block chains can't validate external events and must trust humans to sign for events, renders most Dapps no better than what we can do with Bitcoin and external business logic.

Of the 7 cool Dapps listed for Ethereum, the Vevue project should be implemented with a decentralized file store employing a DHT for quick lookup by geographical target with a list of approved hashes stored on a block chain (per my suggested improvement for decentralized file storage systems to make them not useless/banned pirating systems). There is absolutely no reason that any of the logic needs to be contained in a smart contract! Because even if you do incorporate a means of disapproving hashes (e.g. for plagiarized content), the decentralized block chain can't make this determination per the prior paragraph. 4G Capital's use case, decentralized micro-blogging, and empowering artists can be similarly handled without smart contracts.

Etheria is a different case because it wants a global consensus on the state of all the resources (tiles and blocks). Therefor it needs an enforcable smart contract in order to guarantee the global state is updated corrrectly and under control of the protocol (enforced by the smart contract), i.e. not controlled by an entity. This could run on its own shard (i.e. effectively its own block chain!), except for the problem that it uses ETH which I explained upthread is impossible to shard without breaking the Nash equilibrium and creating a Prisoner's Dilemma for validators and the security of the block chain. Thus the way to implement Etheria correctly is for it to run on its own shard with its own currency unit. Those who want to play have to purchase its currency unit (and note the work I did recently on decentralized exchange). But this does not solve the scaling problem, because there will be no way to shard this Etheria currency unit (token). And Etheria's block chain's security would have to be provided by its own miners/validators, not Ethereum's. Once again, we come full circle and see that for the applications where smart contracts are required and would work, they don't work because there is no way to scale them decentralized. Crowdfunding is another valid use case for a smart contract, but with the same problems.

The more important issue for block chain 2.0 is getting the decentralized consensus correct for a normal block chain (without smart contracts) which can store hashes of data, not the entire data nor enforce business logic. For the cases where we need smart contracts and they work, then we first need to solve the scaling and decentralized consensus. Again I have explained that Ethereum is headed the wrong direction with Casper and it can't work. I have an idea of how to make this all work. I have already explained my idea.