Quote from: organofcorti on December 24, 2012, 06:34:15 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on December 24, 2012, 06:03:15 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on December 24, 2012, 05:24:58 AM

You're probably right, but time to maturity is also a factor. If miners have to wait a significant time to obtain their coins, this also has an impact on earnings. Have you derived the expected time to maturity for Eligius' new reward method? If so could you post it here so it can be compared to p2Pools?

Time to maturity is always 100 confirmations, no matter where you mine, unless the pool is doing some kind of advance (or delay). Neither Eligius and p2pool give any advance, and Eligius only delays rewards for the miners' benefit (to avoid transaction fees when you go to spend them, the pool waits until you have earned a reasonable amount).

Defining "Time to maturity" as follows:

Quote

Maturity time: This is the average time it takes to receive the due reward. High maturity time causes loss of the time value of money, and risk of the pool being discontinued before the rewards are received.

(from https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_summary.pdf)

If you find the name confusing, call it "Average time to payment" or some such.

0. Background.
The old Eligius reward method had an average time to maturity greater than that for other methods (for example PPLNS) and certainly longer than 100 or even 120 network confirmations. If there is significantly poor luck, then it may take a while for miners to receive their payment. So while the variance in payments is zero (SMPPS is a PPS variant, so all shares are paid at B/D) the time it catualy takes to recieve your payment varies from no time at all to a significant amount of time. After a pool using SMPPS solves 1000 blocks, on average miners will have had to wait for the pool to solve ~ 8.4 blocks before receiving payment (Further explanation here).

The derivation of time to maturity for SMPPS is derived in Appendix F of https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

1. Question.
Now that I've made clear the meaning of "time to maturity" and shown (with references, albeit my own work) how time to maturity was a problem for SMPPS, I'm wondering what the time to maturity is for the new reward method. Have you derived it yet? I think it's important for miners to know and understand there may be more waiting involved than for other methods. Threads like this one would be much less likely if it was more wisely known and explained.

The background you've posted is wrong. Eligius has always paid out immediately (or as close to it as possible); while there were some delays in SMPPS due to the variance of block finding times, the longest that rewards ever took was a mere 3 days since I made sure to send before any balance was waiting that long. Your blog misrepresents extra credit as "owed", which it is not and never has been. Most other reward systems (PPLNS, proportional, DGM, etc) never attempt to track or pay extra credit at all - under those systems, miners never get this. It is therefore unfair and possibly dishonest to count extra credit against "time to maturity".

CPPSRB also tracks a value similar to "extra credit", but the same still applies. With CPPSRB, extra credit is actually less likely to ever be paid due to how LIFO works. On the upside, CPPSRB gives actual rewards much more like proportional, so they fit with the actual block payout availability much better without any manual sends; in normal operation, no payout should be delayed more than a single block, and most (at least on Eligius) will be paid out in the same block they are earned in.

Quote from: K1773R on December 24, 2012, 06:09:37 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on December 24, 2012, 06:03:15 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on December 24, 2012, 05:24:58 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on December 24, 2012, 04:06:29 AM

Quote from: K1773R on December 24, 2012, 03:54:06 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on December 24, 2012, 03:43:44 AM

Quote from: ATC777 on December 24, 2012, 03:12:16 AM

Quote from: K1773R on December 24, 2012, 03:08:31 AM

for max income, use p2pool

Explain... Never heard of it and dunno what it is! Cheesy

He's mostly trolling. p2pool's reward system basically makes it improved solo mining. It's not a bad pool, but it certainly doesn't pay better than others.

its the pool with the max outcome, besides the increased PPS pools (unlike ur scampool).

Can't get higher than nofee+txnfees. Admittedly, Eligius is only nofee, but txnfees are so worthless it isn't worth the effort right now - that hardly makes it a "scampool", so that verifies your status as troll. On the other hand, p2pool has very high variance, while Eligius has much lower, so for most people, Eligius is the better choice.

You're probably right, but time to maturity is also a factor. If miners have to wait a significant time to obtain their coins, this also has an impact on earnings. Have you derived the expected time to maturity for Eligius' new reward method? If so could you post it here so it can be compared to p2Pools?

Time to maturity is always 100 confirmations, no matter where you mine, unless the pool is doing some kind of advance (or delay). Neither Eligius and p2pool give any advance, and Eligius only delays rewards for the miners' benefit (to avoid transaction fees when you go to spend them, the pool waits until you have earned a reasonable amount).

Quote from: ATC777 on December 24, 2012, 05:36:42 AM

I'm not getting involved in the argument -- I refrain from internet arguments or personal attacks. I'm just saying that if you must insult him don't insult his religion, especially if it's one of the largest religions in the world like Christianity or Islam. You'll inadvertently insult other people and then they won't like you. Some crazy people might even try to do you harm.

Seems pretty clear to me his anti-Christianity is the fundamental reason he hates me enough to slander me.

wrong, its 120 confirmations... dosnt even know the basics and is a bitcoin dev, shame on u... no i dont hate u because ur believe some stupid shit, its because how u act and what ur doing.

Wrong, it's 100 confirmations. 120 is just what Bitcoin-Qt and (most?) other clients enforce on your computer - you could hack your client to send as soon as it reaches 100 (though due to a bug in all current released versions, no miner will accept it into their block until 101).

Considering all you talk about how I act/do is lies, that clearly isn't the real problem you have with me.