Quote from: franky1 on March 22, 2016, 06:59:22 PM

Quote from: louisLavery on March 22, 2016, 06:28:31 PM

I'd like the idea of P2P mobile phones, no service provider required. Phones connect directly if in range otherwise they hop via other phones to reach their target. Phones that are hopped through get paid a fee for acting as a relay. So you earn while acting as a relay and spend when making calls that need to go through other phones. I'm not sure if this could work with bitcoin, the main question is "can a phone acting as a relay be sure it will get paid?" It can't wait for confirmations, that'd not work. So can it work with bitcoin?

good in basic theory. but in practice, some have alrady tried this. here are some issues found
some people thought about sing bluetooth to connect to people locally. the issue is that with mobile phones. people walk around. meaning it will keep dropping every time people using the network move more then 100 metres apart.

another proposal was people setting up their own cell antennas. this issue is with the eventual solo-owners(thousands of people independent).. would start to become a pool. where only a few people own many masts.. much like the mobile network today

AIUI, bluetooth is too short range, but what's the range of a mobile itself? They all, at present, have to connect with an antenna. The range seems to be highly variable but with a well sited mast it's about 35km[1]. Phone to phone is a lot less, about 2km according to this blog[2]. TerraNet[3] is a firm working on P2P, or mesh, networks, but it's unlikely we'll see such a system kick off in developed countries first. I mean, what would be the business model? That's one of the downsides of capitalism, if there's no profit then who's going to invest time and effort to kick off a P2P phone network, even if it would result in a system that would compete with the status quo and so likely drive down prices and/or improve the current private phone services[4]? A P2P network will more likely start in undeveloped countries, but will they be crushed by private firms as the country develops?

Seems to me, besides the lack of a business model, the only problems preventing a P2P network from coming about are technical (1) algorithms to route and link distant phones (2) how to pay phones to relay calls on. It's perfectly possible to connect over short ranges (I think TerraNet is limited to 7 hops/relays). But as anyone can connect to the system it'd be possible for anyone to set up an antenna to relay calls on - the cost of entering the market is very low. If you live in a high rise flat, or on top of a hill, just get yourself a few cheap phones and the electronics to boost the signal and you're earning bitcoins (assuming that's the currency used in the system). So I don't see the range cannot match what private system do now, people are very innovative - especially if they stand to gain and cost of entry to the market is low. Also, I see no reason why phones cannot link to a local Wi-Fi point, maybe in a private house (which gets paid) and thus can go via the internet to make the call.

But I come back to my original question about bitcion being suitable as a currency for such a system, that is "can a phone acting as a relay be sure it will get paid?" It cannot wait for confirmations. Can it rely on a (crypotgraphically) signed transaction? I guess to be sure it'd have to check the wallet is not empty, but even then it'd be in danger of losing out to a double spend! Still, I doubt many would go to the trouble of cheating the system if it were cheap enough. I don't know enough about the mechanics of bitcoin to answer the question myself, that's why I'm asking here.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_site
[2] http://agonist.org/p2p_style_mobile_phones/
[3] http://terranet.se/?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=8&id=17&Itemid=62
[4] But then again, who would spend time and effort kicking off a virtual currency which is controlled by its users instead of a central body?