Quote from: Carlton Banks on October 16, 2016, 11:18:30 PM

I agree entirely with everything you say there. The "all-or-nothing" absolutist position of saying all transactions should suddenly only be handled by payment channel hubs is something that Franky has managed to drum into everyone's head. The trouble is, I've never actually seen a single example of anyone saying it, not even Poon and Dryffas who conceived the LN concept.

lol firstly lets correct who started the drumming and provoking
this next quote is just on example of carltons drumming that started the beat off

Quote from: Carlton Banks on March 29, 2016, 03:51:41 PM

Quote from: Kprawn on March 29, 2016, 03:44:09 PM

I cannot see why we cannot do both? You could have the Core protocol serving as the settlement layer and a side chain doing the Payment network.
We already have off-chain service providers doing a good job at handling the payment side.

This.

Quote from: Carlton Banks on February 05, 2016, 05:50:54 PM

Quote from: jbreher on February 05, 2016, 02:48:49 PM

perhaps you can tell me in what manner you think LN contributes to decentralization. The way I see it, it will inevitably end up a hub/spoke system - meaning more centralization. Also with node and path discovery being mediated by (other?) centralized actors.

I agree, although I think it's not the correct to say that the overall network topology will be be more centralised, just that one task the network performs will be divided into 2 layers (the miners on one layer finalising tx's, lightning hubs one layer below setting all the transactions up). And it's pretty much true that miners and exchanges could easily become the dominant players in lightning hubs, but it can't stay that way forever, because neither exchanges or miners will be around in large numbers 20 years from now.

tl;dr all Lightning does is split the transaction market up, not much point complaining that the same big Bitcoin companies will get all the business, because they do already now.

theres loads of examples of carlton and his ilk talking about the blockchain "layer" as the settlement and then offchain/sidechain "layer" as the payment

anyway lets put a line through that

onto the more important part i noticed
carltons comments today have left me positively shocked and amazed.

firstly that carltons own words defeated him.. but secondly.. and more importantly
carlton suddenly today has had an epiphany and suddenly wised up to what others have been saying to him since last year
(though i feel its just another flip-flop bait and switch, wolf in sheeps clothing, short term thing)

finally carlton, after about a year of saying the opposite, he has finally actually opening his mind and accepting onchain capacity needs to grow to allow freedom to use for onchain transactions and not just using the space for settlements.
i say this with genuine admiration, thank you carlton for waking up.

i hope this new epiphany also includes no longer having rage debates where onchain TX fee wars are good and should raise the price of a tx.
i hope this new epiphany also includes no longer having rage debates where the blockchain should just be a 'reserve currency'/settlement for offchain/sidechains to be the payments.
(as displayed above about )

its good to see you are finally this very day showing you may actually drop your 'dictatorship desires off offchain being the future direction of capacity,' to instead think of bitcoin as an open network for anyone to use requiring actual onchain growth.

i applaud you for seeing the light.may you continue learning and actually seeing what many others have seen last year. and realise that your old mindset should be left in the past.

but please while your at this realization. do not try pretending you have not been the drum beater with all your involvement in "2mb is an altcoin", "bigblockers are invading", "R3KT campaigning", "2mb F-off", all evident you previously did not want more tx onchain capacity and instead wanted that limited onchain space used for LN settlements, aswell as demonstrated by fighting the bad fight to try getting segwit popularized to head in that direction.

but as i say i am glad you are now accepting that onchain capacity should grow to allow freedom of choice.
lets just hope you stay on this new 'eyes opened' mindset and you dont retreat back to your bad habits of the last 10-14 months

please dont go back to the dark side. otherwise today has been a waste of time for you if you are just baiting and switching.