Quote from: Moloch on March 29, 2016, 07:42:14 PM

Quote from: Olaf on March 29, 2016, 07:39:36 PM

Yup, Socialism sucks.

If we are talking about socialism, I assume everyone forgot about what 2008 financial crisis was about.

Or didnt know the situation how banks got bailed = socialism. People dont know the difference.. true capitalism is when business fail they get no hand outs lol.

You have that exactly backwards...

In capitalism... the rich bankers who caused the crisis get bailed out (America)

In democratic-socialism... the rich bankers who caused the crisis go to jail, and the citizens get bailed out (Iceland)
www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/10/24/if-iceland-can-jail-bankers-for-the-crash-then-why-cant-america

You're not thinking about what entity does the bailing out. In both the case between America and Iceland, it was the socialistic element which does the bailing out, it is the interventionist; the capitalistic element can, at best, influence these decisions made by the socialist element, which all depends on where the power in the market is concentrated; in the case of America with its "quantitative easing", this would be banks, so of course the banks would bail themselves out. It's the same socialistic element which allowed such a crisis to occur at all through superceding the citizen's right to regulate their own economy. What you're calling "capitalism" and "socialism" are your own original definitions of these terms. Personal definitions are useless because there is no common understanding as to what you mean when you say e.g. "socialism"; for example, if I choose to refer to a piano as a "banana", and I tell people that I can play the banana, they will rightfully question what I am actually saying; it's better to just call a piano a "piano." So let's recap what these words actually mean:

Quote from: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/socialism

so·cial·ism (sō′shə-lĭz′əm)
n.
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which the means of production are collectively owned but a completely classless society has not yet been achieved.

Quote from: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/capitalism

cap·i·tal·ism (kăp′ĭ-tl-ĭz′əm)
n.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development occurs through the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

From this we can conclude:

1. Iceland is not an example of socialism, by every standard it is considered a "mixed economy", which is essentially a mixture of both capitalism and socialism:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Iceland

Iceland has a mixed economy with high levels of free trade and government intervention.

Quote from: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mixed%20economy

mixed economy
n.
An economic system that allows for the simultaneous operation of publicly and privately owned enterprises.

If you want an example of a real socialist nation--by the common definition, not by your own original definition--you can look at North Korea or Venezeula today, or Cambodia or the Soviet Union of the past, among other examples which you can find here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states

Quote

China
Cuba
Laos
Vietnam
Bangladesh
India
North Korea
Nepal

The common thread? They're all shitholes with grinding poverty and extreme wealth/influence inequality.

2. America is not an example of a capitalist nation. Again, it has a mixed economy, with elements of both capitalism and socialism.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

The United States has a mixed economy

The nations closest to being capitalist would be Singapore and Hong Kong:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore

Singapore has a highly developed trade-oriented market economy.[15][16] Singapore's economy has been ranked as the most open in the world,[17] 7th least corrupt,[18] most pro-business,[19] with low tax rates (14.2% of Gross Domestic Product, GDP)[20] and has the third highest per-capita GDP in the world; in terms of Purchasing Power Parity (PPP).

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_economy

A market economy is an economy in which decisions regarding investment, production, and distribution are based on market determined supply and demand,[1] and prices of goods and services are determined in a free price system.[2] The major defining characteristic of a market economy is that investment decisions and the allocation of producer goods are mainly made by cooperative negotiation through markets.[3] This is contrasted with a so-called planned economy, where investment and production decisions are embodied in a plan of production established by a state or other body with control over economic resources.