Quote from: RHavar on April 10, 2016, 08:27:00 PM

Quote from: HeyYouGuys on April 10, 2016, 09:15:40 AM

But if the seed is set. You can't change it. The roll has already been determined. The house knows it. It is a number which has already been determined. This does not fit the definition of random.

It seems the only "aspect" of the randomness is you can set your own seed. But they still know. And you're limited to changing it once every 10 minutes or so.

So the rolls are not random.

Correct. All provably fair schemes aren't random. Dilbert explains why:

So we use the next best thing, provably predetermined. The house **does** know all bets in advance, however it's not a problem as the house can't do anything about it. It just has to honor your bets and keep increasing the nonce by 1. If it deviates from that, they've detectably cheated.

If the casino feigns down-time, you should be able to continue playing from where you left off etc.

So the house knowing the games in advance isn't actually a problem.

Surprised this was recently Merit'ed thank you.

I never followed up on this point you made. So I agree with your points. You have to rely that the house will honor the fact that they know you are going to win; even if the win will wipe them out.

Given you are playing a flat strategy; a double on win going for 15 Wins, etc; and that win would yield a payout of 20 BTC, = $200,000. They could see this coming from a mile away. Hours, days in advance, if they saw you were playing a strategy that was always the same on the same seed.

Now seeing this information, well in advance (literally they could have software that analyzes betting patterns and the seed + nonce and simply Alert the site if a large win lies ahead, EVEN if it is 4 days away)...

The site could: And this HAS happened on a number of occasions while I have played on PD, put up an announcement they will undergo routine maintenance at X time.

When you log back in, and AGAIN this HAS happened, you are prompted to set a new seed.

They have thus completely mitigated the loss at the expense of your guaranteed win (if you kept playing), by simply seeing a huge payout well in advance and taking a measure to prevent that Win from happening.

So the provably fair concept like you said is provably determined, and the house is the only side that knows the "winning information" in terms of when it would happen.

Even Casinos in real life do not know this/have this information. This would be the same as a Casino knowing the outcome of the next roll at roullette, seeing a player place a large wager on that single number, and the Casino knowing it will lose, being able to say; hold on, we need to check the wheel.

The only provably fair way would be if somehow the server seed was a new seed for every roll, and there was somehow a way that the user sent an input, that changed every roll (perhaps based on mouse movement); that affected the hash of the next server seed.

Otherwise, we have to trust the dice sites to be fair and honest, even when they know well in advance if a win is going to hit.

And PD used to go down, and still does, quite often, and sometimes, you have to reset your seed on logging back in.

I only question why was a server seed reset required (obviously not for all users but they make all users do so to make it look transparent); but was the resetting of all players server seeds and forcing a seed reset on the player - an action taken to stop a payout which lay ahead?

Do we have that much trust in these sites? Which operate where? And are owned by whom?

Just my thoughts.